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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>At the 1983 World Champs in <st1:City
w:st="on">Pensacola</st1:City> (I was assistant CD) we flew single maneuver schedules
and during a break during the finals, a pilot from <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">France</st1:place></st1:country-region> flew a DEMO of the new
turn-around sequence that would begin after the conclusion of the World
Champs. This was flown in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region> starting in 1984 only by FAI
pilots. In 1990, I flew a YS60 powered MK Arrow clone and took 2<sup>nd</sup>
place at the NATS. The next year, Expert Turnaround was added to the
classes and I won 3<sup>rd</sup> place. These models all used the YS60
with a Radio South Pro Prop (10 ¾ x 7.5 with de-pitched tips to
6.5. It took that long for turnaround to catch on. Many pilots quit
pattern for good once turnaround started.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just letting you see that we used muffled
tuned pipes and small props and very loud! Most FAI guys were flying
semi-scale stuff right after 1983. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tony Stillman, President</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Radio South, Inc.</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>139 Altama Connector, <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street
w:st="on">Box</st1:Street> 322</st1:address></span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Brunswick</span></font></st1:City><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>, <st1:State
w:st="on">GA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">31525</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>1-800-962-7802</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>www.radiosouthrc.com</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bill Glaze<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 20, 2009
5:55 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rules proposal 11-6 question</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I'm asking for a bit of history now. When the turnaround system
was added, were't the pattern folks flying unmuffled (or barely muffled)
2-strokes with high noise levels, not the now (relatigvely quiet) well muffled
4 strokes? (to say nothing of the current generation electrics?)
There may be some interconnection /correlation here. Just asking, Dave,
not quarreling at all. I've flown pattern before it was called pattern,
when you made up your own sequence, and did only those maneuvers you wanted to
do. Now of coursw, we have a well established turnaround
pattern. (Which, by the way, I prefer.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Again, just asking.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Bill Glaze<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com" title="bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, October
20, 2009 2:34 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dave L mentioned the "noise footprint",
but I am not sure that is a major reason (maybe it was?) that we went to
turnaround. I was not heavily involved in pattern at that time. However,
"noise footprint" can be divided into two parts, "noise"
and "footprint". The fact that, as Dave mentioned, some sites in
the NE are starting to fly pattern events again may be due more to the noise
level than the overall flight footprint. So, the turnaround aspect may not be
the saviour in this case as much as the noise reduction itself. Either way,
thanks can go to FAI because that is where the noise reduction
technology came from, and it filtered down to the AMA flyers. IMHO.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>All that aside, I have always felt, and expressed my
opinion, that the AMA rules and schedules should be geared towards what
is best for the sport of precision aerobatics IN THE USA. I don't think
we should pick schedules for any class, including Masters, with the major
concern of helping prepare our pilots for FAI. FAI is another class, and
if you think about that, here in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> it is almost two classes in
itself: Those that fly at national/world level, and those that don't. If
someone is really aspiring to fly at a world level, they will find the FAI
class all by themselves. The fact that we do fly the FAI class at all
contests is, IMHO, all we need to do to help them prepare for world level
competitions. There is no need for us to put an FAI flavor in the
Masters sequence, unless it will benefit pattern flying in general.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Again, this is JMHO.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bob R.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Tue, 10/20/09, John Gayer <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><jgghome@comcast.net></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1158923941>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>As I recall, the ONLY
reason AMA is now flying turnaround is because F3A went to a turnaround
format. The "powersthatwere" were concerned that our team would not
have the relevant experience to compete on the world stage. This started a
process of conversion to turnaround by including the FAI pattern and then
expert turnaround in AMA pattern contests.<br>
The pendulum has now swung the other way where the AMA pattern community,
while overly committed to turnaround, rejects the patterns, rules and
concepts of the FAI.<br>
<br>
While I no longer see a need to use the current(or past schedule as we have
already done) F3A pattern as the Masters pattern, I believe it is important
to address whatever is new and challenging in the upcoming F3A patterns and
consider introducing similar elements into the Masters pattern.<br>
<br>
At the other end of the spectrum, I believe that the Sportsman class should
have the turnaround elements removed completely. Perhaps some of the center
maneuvers could be upgraded in difficulty at the same time. The sportsman
flyer needs more focus on learning the maneuvers and where to place them.
Making them fly the box simply insures that they aree not in position to do a
proper center maneuver. This is not intended as a first step in getting rid
of turnaround but rather creating a progression in the learning process.<br>
<br>
John Gayer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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