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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I will join in only to say I think Sportsman (Cuban </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>à</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>
Cobra excepting) is fine. I’ve spent the better part of the summer
teaching my 13yr old son to fly and fly Sportsman and it seems perfect. It’s
hard, but not too hard. Verne’s approach would also work, but it would
not start to push Sportsman deeper into the box which is one of the first
things they have to learn…not to fly on top of themselves.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>All that aside, I think the BEST thing about the current
sportsman pattern is the length, and the fact that people are STAYING IN Sportsman
for more than a contest or two. The pattern has sufficient challenge and “fun”
to keep people there until they learn it. In our day (too long ago) Novice
was a 1-3 contest and your out sort of pattern. VERY short, very easy, you
really didn’t learn much other than contest logistics. Most guys
entering novice were already sport flyers and could loop and roll and stall.
Maybe not in the center, but that was a short education. Then Sportsman (now
Intermediate) killed us. HUGE jump.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As for the jumps between classes, I really don’t see the
problem with introducing new elements with each class. Advanced introduced
point rolls and slow rolls. Masters USED to introduce snaps, but now only
introduces reverse rolling elements and more complex combinations of
maneuvers. FAI introduces integrated rolling. Seems perfect in that regard.
Each level has something new.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Mark
Atwood</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Paragon
Consulting, Inc.</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> President</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>5885 Landerbrook Drive
Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Phone:
440.684.3101 x102 </span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'>|</span></b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'> Fax: 440.684.3102</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1351F3'><a href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>
</span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1351F3'><a
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/">www.paragon-inc.com</a></span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pete
Cosky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
partially agree with your last post but those building blocks have to come
from somewhere. From my experience, I moved out of Sportsman 4 years
ago and then stopped flying to help raise my son until this year when I
got to fly again in Intermediate. My flights were ugly but at least I had an
idea of how it all had to go together because I learned those building blocks
in Sportsman. IF what is proposed were to have happened in my particular case
it would have been quite the obstacle to overcome and probably would have taken
some of the fun out flying pattern for me.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If
a pilot needs work on geometry, and I know I sure do, then take the time to
practice the given maneuver outside the sequence. Go and burn a few tanks
flying the problem maneuvers and nothing else. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>My
opinion is Sportsman is fine the way it is and it lays a good foundation for
the progression in the classes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net"
title="jgghome@comcast.net">John Gayer</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, October 20,
2009 12:42 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm not sure why it makes sense to place the burden of
learning box management on the Sportsman flyer rather than the Intermediate
flyer. >From what I've seen helping Sportsman flyers, exiting the box twice
doesn't help much. Where they need help is in the geometry and centering
of maneuvers. <br>
Any Sportsman flyer that can manage the box, turnaround maneuvers and centering
plus execute the geometry should be in Intermediate.<br>
<br>
John Gayer<br>
<br>
Pete Cosky wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
would disagree about removing the turnarounds from Sportsman since they have
the opportunity to exit the box twice and get back on their line. Those
turnaround maneuvers teach where the box is and how to manage the confines of
it. If you remove the turnarounds then the move to intermediate becomes much
more difficult as now the newly moved pilot would not only have to worry about
turnarounds and center maneuvers but also box management.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net"
title="jgghome@comcast.net">John Gayer</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, October 20,
2009 11:39 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>As I recall, the ONLY reason
AMA is now flying turnaround is because F3A went to a turnaround format. The
"powersthatwere" were concerned that our team would not have the
relevant experience to compete on the world stage. This started a process of
conversion to turnaround by including the FAI pattern and then expert turnaround
in AMA pattern contests.<br>
The pendulum has now swung the other way where the AMA pattern community, while
overly committed to turnaround, rejects the patterns, rules and concepts of the
FAI.<br>
<br>
While I no longer see a need to use the current(or past schedule as we have
already done) F3A pattern as the Masters pattern, I believe it is important to
address whatever is new and challenging in the upcoming F3A patterns and
consider introducing similar elements into the Masters pattern.<br>
<br>
At the other end of the spectrum, I believe that the Sportsman class should
have the turnaround elements removed completely. Perhaps some of the center
maneuvers could be upgraded in difficulty at the same time. The sportsman flyer
needs more focus on learning the maneuvers and where to place them. Making them
fly the box simply insures that they aree not in position to do a proper center
maneuver. This is not intended as a first step in getting rid of turnaround but
rather creating a progression in the learning process.<br>
<br>
John Gayer<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<pre style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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