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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I recall everyone flying YS 61 short strokes JUST prior to
turnaround being moved into all the classes, with full tuned pipes. Soft mounts
weren’t really in vogue yet, though I recall Chip/Klein/McConville all
semi-soft mounting their firewalls with silicone without the firewall actually
touching the sides of the fuse.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Noise wasn’t too bad, but I do remember flying a LOOOOOONG way
out to turn around and coming into a maneuver from a mile out at 135mph.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Mark Atwood</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Paragon Consulting, Inc.</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> President</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite
130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 </span><b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> Fax:
440.684.3102</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1351F3'><a href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>
</span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>|</span></b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1351F3'><a href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/">www.paragon-inc.com</a></span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill
Glaze<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 5:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm asking for a bit of history now. When the
turnaround system was added, were't the pattern folks flying unmuffled (or
barely muffled) 2-strokes with high noise levels, not the now (relatigvely
quiet) well muffled 4 strokes? (to say nothing of the current generation
electrics?) There may be some interconnection /correlation here.
Just asking, Dave, not quarreling at all. I've flown pattern before it
was called pattern, when you made up your own sequence, and did only those
maneuvers you wanted to do. Now of coursw, we have a well
established turnaround pattern. (Which, by the way, I prefer.)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Again, just asking.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Bill Glaze<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com"
title="bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, October 20,
2009 2:34 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Dave L mentioned the "noise footprint", but I am
not sure that is a major reason (maybe it was?) that we went to turnaround. I
was not heavily involved in pattern at that time. However, "noise
footprint" can be divided into two parts, "noise" and
"footprint". The fact that, as Dave mentioned, some sites in the NE
are starting to fly pattern events again may be due more to the noise level
than the overall flight footprint. So, the turnaround aspect may not be the
saviour in this case as much as the noise reduction itself. Either way,
thanks can go to FAI because that is where the noise reduction
technology came from, and it filtered down to the AMA flyers. IMHO.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>All that aside, I have always felt, and expressed my
opinion, that the AMA rules and schedules should be geared towards what
is best for the sport of precision aerobatics IN THE USA. I don't think
we should pick schedules for any class, including Masters, with the major
concern of helping prepare our pilots for FAI. FAI is another class, and
if you think about that, here in the US it is almost two classes in itself:
Those that fly at national/world level, and those that don't. If someone is
really aspiring to fly at a world level, they will find the FAI class all by
themselves. The fact that we do fly the FAI class at all contests is, IMHO,
all we need to do to help them prepare for world level competitions. There is
no need for us to put an FAI flavor in the Masters sequence, unless it
will benefit pattern flying in general.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Again, this is JMHO.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Bob R.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
--- On <b>Tue, 10/20/09, John Gayer <i><jgghome@comcast.net></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div id=yiv1158923941>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>As I recall, the ONLY reason
AMA is now flying turnaround is because F3A went to a turnaround format. The
"powersthatwere" were concerned that our team would not have the
relevant experience to compete on the world stage. This started a process of
conversion to turnaround by including the FAI pattern and then expert
turnaround in AMA pattern contests.<br>
The pendulum has now swung the other way where the AMA pattern community,
while overly committed to turnaround, rejects the patterns, rules and
concepts of the FAI.<br>
<br>
While I no longer see a need to use the current(or past schedule as we have
already done) F3A pattern as the Masters pattern, I believe it is important
to address whatever is new and challenging in the upcoming F3A patterns and
consider introducing similar elements into the Masters pattern.<br>
<br>
At the other end of the spectrum, I believe that the Sportsman class should
have the turnaround elements removed completely. Perhaps some of the center
maneuvers could be upgraded in difficulty at the same time. The sportsman
flyer needs more focus on learning the maneuvers and where to place them.
Making them fly the box simply insures that they aree not in position to do a
proper center maneuver. This is not intended as a first step in getting rid
of turnaround but rather creating a progression in the learning process.<br>
<br>
John Gayer<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
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