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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I just want to know who on the FAI sequence committee has the Cuban
8 fetish?? In addition to all the turn around Cuban variants, now we have one
and a half full reverse Cubans in the center followed by…hmmmm…lets do an
inverted half Cuban just to keep the flow going…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Mark Atwood</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Paragon Consulting, Inc.</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> President</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite
130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 </span><b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>|</span></b><span
style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> Fax:
440.684.3102</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1351F3'><a href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>
</span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>|</span></b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#1351F3'><a href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/">www.paragon-inc.com</a></span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>J Shu<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2009 3:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Great.
Ok, continue on with the fixes to Masters... ;)</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com"
title="jlachow@hotmail.com">Joe Lachowski</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Discussion List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Monday, October 19,
2009 3:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Jason, we
rearranged things to fix the flow issue.<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>From: <a href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">jshulman@cfl.rr.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:46:25 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Can
Sportsman also be changed into something that resembles a sequence and not a
cool graphic (if looked at as an aresti). It's harder than Intermediate cause
it doesn't flow. Hmmm... reminds me of some of the stuff in P/F-11</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/">www.composite-arf.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com"
title="jlachow@hotmail.com">Joe Lachowski</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Discussion List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Monday, October 19,
2009 3:36 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I
think one of the biggest problems we face right now is the void in
Advanced. The Advanced sequence this time around was made just a tad more
difficult and some of us in the sequence committee are all for
changing Advanced every two years along with Masters. In my opinion, some
are moving up to Masters too quick. Changing Advanced more frequently along
with changing the advancement requirements might just be the ticket for keeping
guys in Advanced a little longer. Hopefully, we can build up this class to
where it should be which should increase the judging pool at local
contests. I am also for allowing guys to move back to Advanced when the new
sequences come into use.<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=ecxstopSpelling>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>From: jnhiller@earthlink.net<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:57:15 -0700<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ecxecxemailstyle22><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>You know there was some resistance
to splitting masters into two groups "A" & "B" so they
could judge each other when a contest was overloaded with masters fliers. I
don't see two FAI classes as being much different. Adding an 'Expert"
class also addresses the judging overload. There may also be some concern that
the ever increasing difficulty in FAI may encourage some people to fly masters,
adding to the judge imbalance.</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ecxecxemailstyle22><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I'm a new guy in masters and will
fly or stumble through whatever is decided on. I just want to point out that
there are other ways to deal with contest judge imbalances. </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ecxecxemailstyle22><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Jim</span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b>On Behalf Of </b>Atwood,
Mark<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2009 9:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I for one have gotten VERY
poor feedback from our masters flyers on this. It makes sense to me, and
in a vacuum I would certainly vote for it, but alas, I</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>’</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>m
not. Given the current sentiment on this in D3(AMA D3 that is, not NSRCA)
it would be a resounding no vote without removing the integrated rolling
maneuvers at a minimum.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Those maneuvers alone keep
many from moving up to FAI, in addition to having to learn 2 sequences. I
don</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>’</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>t know what the response would be to a Masters </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FAI
LITE</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>”</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> sequence where you simply removed the integrated roll from the
Figure M and maybe replaced the Loop w/8pt with an avalanche or
such. But I know I</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>’</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>ll
get an ear full of </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Nays</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>”</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> if there</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>’</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>s a proposal for straight FAI in masters.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Mark Atwood</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:8.5pt;
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</span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:black'>|</span></b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave
Burton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2009 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Miller<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It seems to me that adopting
the FAI </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>P</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>”</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> schedule for the Masters class with </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>changes</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>”</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> is
not the way to go. A better alternative IMO is to fly FAI P schedule
under FAI rules as a separate class. Those of us with some age remember when
this was done years ago as </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>D</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>”</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>
expert and </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>D</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>”</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> Novice classes. As I remember AMA class </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>D</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>”</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> was
the FAI event back then. This would have the advantages of two classes
flying under the same rules and the benefits of more flyers/judges
familiar with the same rules and maneuvers. It would also eliminate the work
involved in coming up with a new Masters sequence every three or so years as a
new schedule would be automatically be invoked FAI changed. I</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>’</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>d
like to see a proposal for this change submitted to the Contest Board.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dave Burton </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vicente
"Vince" Bortone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2009 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Hi Lance,</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Just to clarify. I am not the only one making this
proposal. Don Ramsey and Charlie Rock helped me to put it
together. I am going to try to respond to your questions below.
Please read below in <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>bold.
</span></strong>Thanks for bringing this discussion to the list. <br>
<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude@tx.rr.com><br>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:51:30 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules proposal 11-6 question</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I know official discussion hasn't
started but this list is one of the good vetting forums. Vince proposed
Masters flying FAI P, which is clear <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(this
is for sure the most important statement)</span></strong>, but if the logic
behind the proposal as written causes confusion it may make a less convincing
case. <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Good
point. We assumed that was easy for someone that is very familiar to
pattern to digest the intent of the proposal. Your conclusions are
correct. We are assuming that the current procedures we use
to design the Master schedule are not changed. We adopt the
current FAI P schedule with the appropriate changes to suit the
Master class. This is the reason why we didn't try to discuss other
details. </span></strong>For example, it says "there is an
evident pile up f pilots in the Masters class" but never clearly states
how flying the same sequence would change that. He may be implying that
people will more freely move between classes to balance the lines because they
are flying a similar sequence but the sequences may not be identical and the
judging rules are not identical. <strong><span style='font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>Correct. You actually saw what happened in Tulsa
this year. There were 10 pilots in Masters and you decided to divide
the group in two and five flew Masters and five flew FAI. This
also happened already in other local contest around KC. It happens at
Fort Scott contest also. Pilots will be more willing to do this we
fly the same schedule. </span></strong>At another point it says
"This will make judging of both classes very accurate" but doesn't
address the obvious differences in judging criteria between AMA and FAI, which
is the current burden that Masters and FAI pilots currently bear when the fly
one class and judge the other.<strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
I am sure that we will agree that it will be a lot easier to deal with these
differences if we fly the same schedules. The proposal intent is not to
address the differences in judging criteria between AMA and FAI.
I believe that it will become natural as we start to fly
the same schedule and the differences will go away with time. </span></strong>Finally,
there is no exact wording proposed on the form where it is expected, but later
in the logic it refers to the idea of replacing some FAI maneuvers where
appropriate. <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
are assuming that the current procedure to design the schedules
is still in place. The committee will check the current FAI P
schedule and proposed a final one with the changes to make it suitable for
Masters. For example, P11 the only portion I will change is the
integrated half loop on the figure M. I will suggest something like
2 of 4 or 1/2 roll on bottom to replace the integrated 1/2 roll. I
believe that all other maneuvers are suitable for Masters. </span></strong>Without
exact wording, its not clear how this is done, or if the maneuver descriptions
will be re-written in the AMA rules, or referenced to the FAI descriptions like
the sequence. <strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
committee will decide whatever is appropriate. If they feel that the FAI
descriptions are appropiate we could use it as is.</span></strong>
Oh, and how does AMA deal with the fact that FAI changes schedules in odd
years?<strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> We will
need to follow FAI schedule. I think that this is very possible
and should not be a problem. </span></strong></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>My intent is simply to point out
aspects that detract from it's thoroughness. I do not yet have a stance on
the issue.<strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> We put
this together just taking at the 2008 Nats. I remember that I have to
judge FAI and I never had the chance to judge FAI before the Nats. I was
trying to study the FAI schedule at the same time that I was trying to fly my
own contest. This is clearly an additional pressure on the contestant.
If this proposal pass it will make our life easier at the local contest
and when we judging at the Nats or any other contest. Also, clearly will
make the judging level very high because Masters and FAI pilots will be very
familiar with the schedules we fly and the details requires to judge each of
the maneuvers. Finally, the balance in local contest will be easier
to fix since we will more willing to fly FAI when required.
</span></strong></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>--Lance</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
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