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Pinch the loop? Depends on the plane. I had a Python with the large wing, it liked to pull on the avalanche, all others I have had since like to push (or presented better, whether it was a true snap or not aside).<BR>
<BR>
Mike Cohen<BR> <BR>
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From: frankjuliei@comcast.net<BR>To: jpavlick@idseng.com; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:25:57 -0400<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll (BrakeRoll)Description<BR><BR>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Woudn’t that pinch the loop ? For the sake of my example, let’s use a positive snap. Don’t know if my point about judging this maneuver is clear. Flying weather is ,well, not the best ( 35 degrees and flurries) so I’m rehearsing with a stick plane.LOL.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>John Pavlick<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, October 16, 2009 11:04 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll (BrakeRoll)Description</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Frank,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> In the Advanced Avalanche you don't <EM><I><FONT face="Times New Roman">have</FONT></I></EM> to push (negative snap) - you can pull if you prefer. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">John Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Fri, 10/16/09, frank <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><frankjuliei@comcast.net></SPAN></I></SPAN></B> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>From: frank <frankjuliei@comcast.net><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll (Brake Roll)Description<BR>To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 10:45 AM</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> In the current Master’s sequence, the Avalanche with 1 ½ snap (from the bottom)- The model is inverted and flies the first half of the outside loop. The aircraft is supposed to pitch up (pull) for the break, then perform the 1 ½ snap roll. In the Advanced Sequence Avalanche with a single snap , the aircraft is inverted at the top, but the pilot has to pitch (push) before the roll. In both situations, it seems likely that judges will have to look hard to see the break because of the altitude/location/climb of the model, no?.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Frank</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, October 16, 2009 9:43 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll (Brake Roll)Description</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jerry Budd explained pretty well the fact that pattern planes are so lightly loaded that a large amount of force in pitch must exist to cause a stall. Stalls, accelerated and/or assymetric, I don't think are what happens in a pattern snap.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe an assymetry in lift does however. Think of the the wing as two halves (fancy that) where one sides lifts the equivalent of its whole area and the other side only a small percentage. Neither panel is stalled per se....one simply lifts less than the other. Yaw will induce the differential lift once the wing has been loaded in pitch. Assymetric lift will cause the wing to autorotate in roll axis.....we accelerate that autorotation with ailerons (duh!!). Some planes will snap with yaw command alone once pitch loading has happened. Most pattern planes will not because, as Jerry pointed out, it doesn't take a whole lot of lift to keep a pattern plane flying</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My 2c</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MattK</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Martin X. Moleski, SJ <moleski@canisius.edu><BR>To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 6:43 am<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll (Brake Roll) Description</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Keith Black wrote: <BR>> How about this definition: <BR> <BR>> At the start of a snap-roll, the fuselage attitude must show a <BR>> definite break and separation from the <BR>> flight path, before the rotation is started, since the model aircraft <BR>> is supposed to be in a stalled <BR>> condition throughout the maneuver ... <BR> <BR>That what Vicente (and others) are arguing is a bad <BR>definition for our purposes. <BR> <BR>I agree with those who want to remove all references to <BR>stalling from the definition of the maneuver. <BR> <BR>The model must depart (break away) from all three <BR>axes. Saying that the first departure must be separated <BR>from the other two does not make good sense to me. <BR> <BR>Demonstrating the kind of "stall" that leads to a <BR>spin entry is very different from the assymetric stall <BR>required for autorotation--at least in my own understanding <BR>of what accelerated stalls are like. <BR> <BR> Marty <BR>_______________________________________________ <BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR><A href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><U><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT></U></A> <BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"><U><FONT color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</SPAN></FONT></U></A> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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