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<DIV><FONT color=#000080 face=Arial>Depends on how strong the wind
is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">Vicente
"Vince" Bortone</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 16, 2009 12:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested
New Snap Roll(BrakeRoll)Description</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Isn't better
to snap into the wind to avoid displacement when there is cross wind (almost
always in contests)? <BR><BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "J N Hiller" <<A
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A>><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</A>, "General pattern
discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Friday, October 16, 2009 11:24:00 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll(BrakeRoll)Description<BR><BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle29><FONT color=navy size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">I
found that the direction of the snap was better one way over the other also.
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle29><FONT color=navy size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">That
"what ever works" part is what we need to remember when writing rules and quit
trying to include how to fly the airplane in the maneuver
description.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle29><FONT color=navy size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Jim
Hiller</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle29><FONT color=navy size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2
face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>John Pavlick<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, October 16, 2009 9:01
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested
New Snap Roll(BrakeRoll)Description</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I do
positive snaps on the Avalanche and I got a few 9's at the NAT's so
apparently it doesn't pinch it too much. LOL</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I'm working
on practicing it both ways to see what looks better. I guess it depends
on the airplane. Some just don't like to do negative snaps and others
will really mess up the loop geometry if you do a positive snap. Like
everything else, whatever works for you is best.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It's snowing
here too. :)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">John
Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Fri, 10/16/09,
frank <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><frankjuliei@comcast.net></SPAN></I></SPAN></B>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>From:
frank <frankjuliei@comcast.net><BR>Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion]
Suggested New Snap Roll (BrakeRoll)Description<BR>To:
jpavlick@idseng.com, "'General pattern discussion'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Friday, October 16,
2009, 11:25 AM</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black face=inherit><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV id=yiv1575840929>Woudn’t that pinch the loop ? For the sake
of my example, let’s use a positive snap. Don’t
know if my point about judging this maneuver is clear.
Flying weather is ,well, not the best ( 35 degrees and flurries)
so I’m rehearsing with a stick plane.LOL.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT>
<P></P>
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">F.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
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face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
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<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>John
Pavlick<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday,
October 16, 2009 11:04 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll
(BrakeRoll)Description</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<TABLE
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 4.2pt; mso-cellspacing: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 0in"
border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Frank,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> In
the Advanced Avalanche you don't <EM><I>have</I></EM> to push
(negative snap) - you can pull if you prefer. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">John
Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Fri,
10/16/09, frank <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><frankjuliei@comcast.net></SPAN></I></SPAN></B>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>From:
frank <frankjuliei@comcast.net><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll (Brake
Roll)Description<BR>To: "' General pattern discussion '"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Friday, October
16, 2009, 10:45 AM</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV id=yiv561272999> In the current Master’s sequence, the
Avalanche with 1 ½ snap (from the bottom)- The model
is inverted and flies the first half of the outside loop.
The aircraft is supposed to pitch up (pull) for the
break, then perform the 1 ½ snap roll. In the Advanced
Sequence Avalanche with a single snap , the aircraft
is inverted at the top, but the pilot has to pitch
(push) before the roll. In both situations, it seems
likely that judges will have to look hard to see the
break because of the altitude/location/climb of the model,
no?.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT>
<P></P></DIV>
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class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
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color=black><SPAN
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<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Frank</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><FONT
color=black size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><FONT color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
color=black size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, October 16,
2009 9:43 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap Roll (Brake
Roll)Description</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Jerry
Budd explained pretty well the fact that pattern planes are so
lightly loaded that a large amount of force in pitch
must exist to cause a stall. Stalls, accelerated and/or
assymetric, I don't think are what happens in a pattern
snap.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
believe an assymetry in lift does however. Think of the the
wing as two halves (fancy that) where one sides lifts the
equivalent of its whole area and the other side only a small
percentage. Neither panel is stalled per se....one simply lifts
less than the other. Yaw will induce the differential lift once
the wing has been loaded in pitch. Assymetric lift will cause the
wing to autorotate in roll axis.....we accelerate that
autorotation with ailerons (duh!!). Some planes will snap with yaw
command alone once pitch loading has happened. Most pattern planes
will not because, as Jerry pointed out, it doesn't take a whole
lot of lift to keep a pattern plane flying</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">My
2c</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">MattK</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=3
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Martin X. Moleski, SJ <
moleski@canisius.edu ><BR>To: General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Fri, Oct 16,
2009 6:43 am<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Suggested New Snap
Roll (Brake Roll) Description</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_905f6800-74da-4358-b0e3-a5e175f882e1>
<P
style="BACKGROUND: white; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=1 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Keith
Black wrote: <BR>> How about this
definition: <BR> <BR>> At the start of a snap-roll,
the fuselage attitude must show a <BR>> definite break and
separation from the <BR>> flight path, before the rotation
is started, since the model aircraft <BR>> is supposed to
be in a stalled <BR>> condition throughout the maneuver
... <BR> <BR>That what Vicente (and others) are arguing
is a bad <BR>definition for our
purposes. <BR> <BR>I agree with those who want to remove
all references to <BR>stalling from the definition of the
maneuver. <BR> <BR>The model must depart (break away)
from all three <BR>axes. Saying that the first departure must
be separated <BR>from the other two does not make good sense
to me. <BR> <BR>Demonstrating the kind of "stall" that
leads to a <BR>spin entry is very different from the
assymetric stall <BR>required for autorotation--at least in
my own understanding <BR>of what accelerated stalls are
like. <BR> <BR>
Marty <BR>_______________________________________________ <BR>NSRCA-discussion
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