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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Vicente,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I don’t think “speed” should be added in any form to the
definition, wether its velocity, or rotational velocity. There should not be
anything in the definition that makes the judge look for a particular piloting
technique for execution. The judge shouldn’t care what technique the pilot
used. The judge should only be concerned about the result. I like Don’s
proposed simplified definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jim W.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vicente
"Vince" Bortone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] How I became an expert Snap Judge (TIC)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Shall we add
speed change? I remember seen QQ practicing at the Nats when he had the
Brio. It was clear that the plane speed changed substantially during the
snap to a point that almost stop. It was interesting to see how he
was adding power to recover during and after the
snap. The speed reduction has been a common denominator when I
see good snaps by other pilots. <br>
<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Jim Woodward (US SSA)" <jim.woodward@baesystems.com><br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:46:00 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] How I became an expert Snap Judge (TIC)<br>
<br>
Good points (again) Don. I like your simplified approach to defining the
snap roll. Comparisons to full scale flying have no merit here at all.
Some measure of autorotation is easily discernable by watching the nose
and tail.<br>
Thanks,<br>
Jim W.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Don Ramsey<br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:35 AM<br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] How I became an expert Snap Judge (TIC)<br>
<br>
I think part of our problem is the snap we define is not necessarily the<br>
snap the full scale pilots define. We need to fly to our definition and<br>
call it what we wish. Maybe get rid of the snap name! Judges should
score<br>
the maneuver based on the pattern definition and not some definition they<br>
believe is correct. This applies to all the maneuvers in pattern.
The name<br>
of a maneuver should have no bearing on how it is flown or judged. A good<br>
example of this is our definition of a snap into a spin. Maybe it's not a<br>
snap but it is what WE call it and the downgrade based on our definition is<br>
10 points. Real pilots and IMAC have nothing to do with pattern unless we<br>
want to change our focus.<br>
<br>
Don<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Martin X.<br>
Moleski, SJ<br>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:39 AM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] How I became an expert Snap Judge (TIC)<br>
<br>
Budd Engineering wrote:<br>
<br>
> ... The bottom line is this: we're not<br>
> stalling the wing when we do our snaps, not even a portion of it (unless<br>
> you're VERY low on airspeed at entry such as a spin).<br>
<br>
And if you're doing a stall that slow, even if you do manage<br>
to get a "real" snap out of it, you're going to be downgraded<br>
for having your exit line below the entry line (I surmise).<br>
<br>
> ... So the bigger question is should emulating a full-scale snap roll be a<br>
> pattern judging criterion or do we even care?<br>
<br>
Departure in all three axes seems right to me: pitch, yaw, roll.<br>
<br>
"If it's not a roll and it's not a barrel roll, then it's a snap
roll."<br>
<br>
I think the NSRCA should commission the fellow with the high-def<br>
cameras to do instruction tapes with real pilots flying maneuvers<br>
that the judging team judges to be "right." That might help.<br>
<br>
> OK, it's really, really late out here on the left coast, I've gotta get<br>
> to bed. Shoot away.<br>
<br>
<BLAM!><br>
<br>
Marty<br>
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