<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>To put the whole thing into perspective: We spend countless hours trying to build the perfectly straight, perfectly trimmed airplane. Then we spend even more time practicing with that airplane. We go to contests hoping to score well while we're being judged by people who may or may be competent enough to judge us correctly - at least as far as some of the more technical aspects go. Does this make sense? </DIV>
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<DIV>I think we see judging as a "necessary evil" rather than what it really is: a critical piece of our sport. I don't think anyone goes to the field to practice judging. :( </DIV>
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<DIV>The fact that we're always discussing the same issues should mean something. You can change the wording to make things more explicit (this is good) but until you have a better way to certify judges, the "problems" will never go away completely.</DIV>
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<DIV>John <SPAN>Pavlick</SPAN><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/12/09, Vicente "Vince" <SPAN><SPAN>Bortone</SPAN></SPAN> <I><vicenterc@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone <vicenterc@comcast.net><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question (warning 3 letterword)<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM<BR><BR>
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<DIV>I lost track: is this for snaps or stall turn? Well probably both. I took the time few months ago to read the snap description for IAC, IMAC, F3A and AMA. I was amazed to find that all four are very similar. I am not sure now about stall turn or hammer head but will be interesting to do the research. Also it is interesting to know that IMAC, F3A and AMA all have about the same issues when judging snaps (probably similar for IAC but I don't have the information). Therefore, I suggest that we try to do more judging schools around the country. For example, at the Nats we take 4-5 days for flying but we have around 1/2 day for judge training and it is not mandatory. This is clearly an unbalance. Yes, I know that we have more fun flying but judge training shall be equally important in this sport. NSRCA
(us) should put together a plan to do more judging schools to make sure that we all are in the same page. I am 100% confident that all these issues will be alleviated as we do more training and re-training. </DIV>
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<DIV>Best regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Bob Richards" <bob@toprudder.com><BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:59:00 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question (warning 3 letterword)<BR><BR></DIV>
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<DIV>Well said.</DIV>
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<DIV>I will also add that the vast majority of the pattern pilots on the US (far greater than 200???) will never fly FAI. Why be content to follow when we may be able to lead by example.</DIV>
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<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 10/12/09, John Ferrell <I><jferrell13@triad.rr.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The FAI folks have no interest in our problems or solutions, they have troubles of their own. Our representation to the FAI process is tiny. They are slow to react and even slower to admit there may be a problem. If you get the opportunity to watch a FAI conducted event, be very critical of the judging, the outcome as well as the elements. We have a better game in the US than exists on an international level. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is not necessary to ignore their rules but we need to take advantage of the opportunity to improve and adjust where practical. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>More consistent judging and fewer ambiguous rules are especially important goals. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>John Ferrell W8CCW<BR> <BR>"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."<BR>-Barry Goldwater<BR>"You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note."<BR>-Doug Floyd<BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=tkeithblack@gmail.com href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tkeithblack@gmail.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Keith Black</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question (warning 3 letterword)</DIV>
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<DIV>I know the USA centric thinkers won't like this, but I think we should stay consistent with the FAI descriptions of the maneuver. Like it or not RC Aerobatics is not that big of a pond. Why in the AMA (all one or two hundred of us active Pattern fliers) do we have to have our own definitions? Many countries ONLY fly FAI. It's cool that the AMA has it's own classes, sequences, even event rules, but why have our own maneuver descriptions? </DIV>
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<DIV>Seems to me that we just create confusion for judges and pilots alike when we have different maneuver descriptions from the rest of the world. If we feel a description is poorly defined why not appeal to the FAI?</DIV>
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<DIV>Keith Black</DIV>
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