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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Winter must be coming early this year. It’s not even mid October
and we are already discussing rule changes and judging snaps. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What
if I add throttle on a 45 downline snap to keep the airspeed constant through
the snap? That does not disqualify it as a snap. You can't use your impression
of a momentary drop in airspeed as any kind of a reliable indicator that a
snap was done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Pitch
break, yawing motion need to be visible. Some line displacement is
guaranteed and really doesn't deserve a downgrade unless it's severe.
Yes, there's the trick of whapping opposite rudder as a lead to the snap onset
to help fool judges who need to see the same exact track afterwards, but in
reality that should get a downgrade. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Now,
can you guarantee that because you saw some pitch break and yawing motion that
it really was a snap? No, but I guarantee you that without it, it wasn't
a snap. I don't mean to make this sound like I'm an expert at flying a perfect
snap, but I know darned well what it is supposed to be.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ed</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
title="jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Sunday, October 11,
2009 7:58 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Yup
and I do use that as an indicator. Remember the old Masters Reverse
Avalanche? Sometimes the plane would actually almost stop moving right after
the snap (if it was done correctly). If the plane cruises right through a
"snap-roll" with no visible dissipation of energy, it's probably a
twinkle.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>John
Pavlick<br>
<a href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:js.smith@verizon.net"
title="js.smith@verizon.net">Scott Smith</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Sunday, October 11,
2009 8:03 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So why don’t we use speed as a criteria? A true snap roll
will slow the aircraft significantly. (It’s at least worth a mention the
aircraft should decelerate in the description!) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>You
can fake a snap just by adding some elevator and rudder, enough to get the tail
to cone around. Fools a lot of judges.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:warrior523@mchsi.com"
title="warrior523@mchsi.com">Dan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Sunday, October 11,
2009 6:14 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>No
pitch break = no snap roll. It's not a matter of anyone's opinion, it's
an aerodynamic fact. If it's truly this hard to judge, they should simply
be eliminated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Okay
if you say so but what is it if it is not a barrel roll or an axial roll?
Certainly it is a snap, and certainly there is a pitch break but it does not
have to come before the rotation it can happen simoultaneously. I can fly
level or vertical (up or down) or at any other angle in between and flip my
elevator stick repeatedly from one end of a line to another and my plane does
not stall (oops I know I should say the wing or wings do not stall) The
arguement for a pitch break is fascious reguarding our models. I go ahead
and do the bump prior to the snap if that is how the judges at that time want
it, but to say that a plane did not snap just because there was not an initial
pitch break does not equal actuality. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com"
title="ed_alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Sunday, October 11,
2009 5:45 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:warrior523@mchsi.com"
title="warrior523@mchsi.com">Dan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Sunday, October 11,
2009 5:12 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
know better than to enter this conversation but, but, well here goes. Don,
I agree with your post about the three types of rolls. If it is not axial
and it is not a barrell roll the it is a snap roll. Some one at some time
put in the description of a snap the requirement of a ptich break. Man
has this caused problems. Now tell me if a plane does a snap roll without
a leading pitch break then what roll was it, axial, nope don't think so.
Was it a barrel roll, nope not that either so low and behold it must have been
a snap roll. We have all set in a judging chair and watched snap
manuevers and we have flown these maneuvers. We can all say that we have
seen and or flown many true snap rolls that did not have a any visible
pitch break, some are judged on our 1 to 10 scale and others at times receive
the zero. In the current Masters sequence the 45 degree downline snap for
example. I have flown that manuever many many times and I have thrown in
the "required" pitch bump and I have at times neglected to do the
bump, but you know what, in either method the airplane performed a
snap roll.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
have been flying pattern since the late sixties and going all the way back to
then I have know and been able to recognize a stall turn and its difference
from a hammerhead turn. I for the life of me it seems that a stall
turn is named very aptly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Some
of us live for the nitpicking discussions of stalls and snaps and wording in
maneuver descriptions, others just want a simple description and go out
and fly or judge it to our perceived perfection. Is it any wonder we seem
to be decreasing in our numbers.</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dan
Curtis</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net"
title="vicenterc@comcast.net">Vicente "Vince" Bortone</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Sunday, October 11,
2009 7:47 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Amen....<br>
<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Ed Alt" <<a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:33:56 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap<br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Don:</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>I don't agree with that. You need to see a distinct pitch break
and yawing action to accompany the pitch break, otherwise there is no real
evidence that autorotation occurred. "Tail coning" alone is not even
a reliable indicator of a snap. You can easily cheat that to sell a
"snap". A snap is a stalled wing, autorotation
maneuver. Also, the tendency to downgrade snaps because of any line
displacement goes entirely against the physics of what must occur in order for
a real snap roll take happen. I think we should have a rule that most
clearly accounts for the physics of what must occur for it to be a real snap,
or just take them of sequences entirely. And of course, educate judges
and pilots accordingly. Also, when you're a judge, don't be afraid to
zero or severely downgrade a wiffle snap, or whatever is being presented
to you if it's not a real snap. Especially don't be afraid of zeroing snaps
when it's a big name trying to sneak a snap cheat in front of you.</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Regards,</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Ed</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a
href="mailto:donramsey@gmail.com" target="_blank" title="donramsey@gmail.com">Don
Ramsey</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:01 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> [NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ok, how about
this for the snap? “If its not a barrel roll and not an axial roll, it’s
a snap.” Maybe have the coning of the tail in the description. This eliminates
about 90% of the judging differences.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Don</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob
Richards<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question (warning 4 letter
word)</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I think changing the judging criteria, just for the snap
part of the manuever, would suffice.<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Sat, 10/10/09, John Ferrell <i><jferrell13@triad.rr.com></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=yiv1062628926>
<p class=MsoNormal>? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
believe "</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We could
fix most of that, by assigning a low K to snap maneuvers" is the only
appropriate solution. If you cast them out, it is giving up. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>John Ferrell W8CCW<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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