<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Amen....<BR><BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Ed Alt" <ed_alt@hotmail.com><BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:33:56 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap<BR><BR>
<STYLE>@font-face {
font-family: Cambria Math;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Calibri;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Tahoma;
}
@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; }
P.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri
}
LI.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri
}
A:link {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single
}
A:visited {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single
}
P {
FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto
}
SPAN.EmailStyle18 {
FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; COLOR: #1f497d; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"
}
SPAN.SpellE {
mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes
}
.MsoChpDefault {
mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-style-type: export-only; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-default-props: yes
}
DIV.Section1 {
page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't agree with that. You need to see a distinct pitch break and yawing action to accompany the pitch break, otherwise there is no real evidence that autorotation occurred. "Tail coning" alone is not even a reliable indicator of a snap. You can easily cheat that to sell a "snap". A snap is a stalled wing, autorotation maneuver. Also, the tendency to downgrade snaps because of any line displacement goes entirely against the physics of what must occur in order for a real snap roll take happen. I think we should have a rule that most clearly accounts for the physics of what must occur for it to be a real snap, or just take them of sequences entirely. And of course, educate judges and pilots accordingly. Also, when you're a judge, don't be afraid to zero or severely downgrade a wiffle snap, or whatever is being presented to you if it's not a real snap. Especially don't be afraid of zeroing snaps when it's a big name trying to sneak a snap cheat in front of you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=donramsey@gmail.com href="mailto:donramsey@gmail.com" target=_blank>Don Ramsey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>'General pattern discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:01 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Ok, how about this for the snap?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>“If <SPAN class=SpellE>its</SPAN> not a barrel roll and not an axial roll, it’s a snap.” Maybe have the coning of the tail in the description. This eliminates about 90% of the judging differences.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Don</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN></SPAN> </P>
<DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bob Richards<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:09 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] basic judging question (warning 4 letter word)</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="mso-cellspacing: 0in; mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 0in" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes">
<TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top>
<P class=MsoNormal>I think changing the judging criteria, just for the snap part of the manuever, would suffice.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 10/10/09, John Ferrell <I><jferrell13@triad.rr.com></I></B> wrote:</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<DIV id=yiv1062628926>
<P class=MsoNormal>? </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I believe "</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">We could fix most of that, by assigning a low K to snap maneuvers" is the only appropriate solution. If you cast them out, it is giving up. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>John Ferrell W8CCW<BR> </P></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<BR>Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2427 - Release Date: 10/10/09 06:39:00</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</div></body></html>