Arch,<br>
That makes perfect sense. Both vehicle types travel fast enough,
meaning they displace a great deal of air mass. Air is surprisingly
"heavy" at these speeds and small corrective surfaces will assist some
design imperfections. The problem with corrective surfaces is that they
are speed dependent and relationships (speed and force) are not linear.<br>
<br>
Thrust vectoring is fine but that also is a correction for the
spiraling air stream, the necessary evil of patterndom and all things with a single propeller providing the thrust. I am looking
forward to someone (maybe myself) creating an egg-crate of sorts just
behind the prop to straighten the flow. Downline brakes would be
tremendous and need for thrust off sets nil. <br>
<br>
Canard surfaces in my new design are set-up to do precisely that...straighten a % of air flow from the prop. Now IF I EVER GET TO FINISH the crate.<br>
<br>
A really good compromise is the set-up that Silvestri has used before,
that of the coaxial contra-rotating props up front. Probably a little heavier
and considerably more complex than a single, movable power plant tho. Another very good approach
(also more complex) is a counter-rotating twin. Electric power is ideal for such a set-up. This idea is being
pursued in control line stunt circles BTW.<br>
<br>
MattK<br>
<br>
PS. Hey Arch...how does an 80 gram 20 X 10 sound ? Considerably stiffer than the plastic stuff. <br>
<di v> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Archie Stafford <astafford@swtexas.net><br>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:40 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260"> <style> @#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 p.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 li.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 a:link,#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;}#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 a:visited,#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;}#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 p {mso-style-priority:99; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri
f"; color:#1F497D;}#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;}@#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#AOLMsgPart_3_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260 div.Section1 {page:Section1;}</style>
<div class="Section1">
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Looks to me like someone broke into an F1 garage and started copying things they saw on the cars…</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder</span></div>
</div>
</div>
0D
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">It is Spanish. I will translate the most important portions and let you know later. </span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Wayne Galligan" <<a href="mailto:wgalligan@att.net">wgalligan@att.net</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:30:04 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder</span></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either.</span><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: b lack;">Wayne Galligan</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><br>
<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net" title="chuenkan@comcast.net">Phil Spelt</a> </span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">To:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div cla ss="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder...<br>
<br>
At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive.....<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105">http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105</a> <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://list
s.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></div>
<div><b><i><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">--></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: maroon;"> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets.<br>
<br>
</span></i></b><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc.<br>
URL: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.kcrctn.com/">http://www.kcrctn.com<br>
</a>AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177<br>
My URL: <a target="_blank" href="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/%7Echuenkan/">http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/<br>
</a> (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="MsoNorma l"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_d0570e12-7645-421c-a5d9-1e8545d9f260" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> </tt></pre> </div>
<div id='u8CBF23483D7F79C-12C4-3637_EN_US' class='aol_ad_footer'> </div>