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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This stuff cracks me up. How hard is it to build a
2-meter Pattern plane that makes weight? I did it on my first attempt. And
I was 8 oz. UNDER weight. All I did was weigh everything that went into the
plane when I built it. Simple. It's not rocket science guys. EVERY time I
see a plane that's "overweight" it's obvious (to me anyway) why. I know I'm not
the only one who can build a light airplane. I've seen lots of them. Built by
"ordinary" guys like myself. Come on guys, quit sniveling about the weight
issue. This is ridiculous! We have a rule that defines the Max. weight. If you
can't build an airplane that meets the rules then why should you expect to
be able to fly it in a National Competition? Does that make sense? Regardless of
whether or not you expect to make the finals or the top 3 (in Intermediate or
Adavanced) you should know that your plane should have to comply
with the rules. If that makes you stay home instead of driving all the way
to Muncie with an "illegal" airplane then I guess it just sucks to be you.
:(</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anything we do will be better than what we've been
doing. Will people "cheat"? I hope not. It's always possible. But I don't think
Pattern guys cheat all that often. Sure, they might try to "get away" with
something like NOT weighing their airplane before going to the NATs then
scrambling to get it down to the Max weight before they get their award. THAT
I've seen a few times. :) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You guys have a whole year to learn how to build a
light airplane. I know you can do it. VBG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cjm767driver@hotmail.com href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">Chris
Moon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 03, 2009 9:13
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Inspection & Weighing</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I agree that everyone should have a plane that is in compliance
to compete. My issue is piling a lot of duties on the volunteers as a
means of correcting the past. Derek has volunteered to do the weighing
and sizing. Is one person (Derek) expected to do this all day on check
in day by himself or how many other people is this going to take in order to
cover all day? If this counts as your judging assignment, then it
reduces the number of available judges. <BR>The NATS is the premier event for
the country and I agree we should do what we can to make sure the models are
in compliance. But we are just setting up another system that unless there is
cut and dry guidance, can be waived or ignored as in the past. And if we just
had that guidance, the current system would work fine and not result in extra
man power requirements.<BR><BR>Just think of the can of worms, if I know my
plane is overweight, I might substitute a smaller tank or 4 cell receiver pack
for a 5 cell or substitute a micro servo that I have no intention of actually
flying and would swap out right after inspection. The answer of course
is to inventory every plane for every part and then compare that inventory
sheet with the plane later in the competition. What a man power mess to
do all of this! And what if my servo did die and I swapped it out during
competition and now my plane does not match the inventory made at check
in?<BR><BR>Again, this discussion would never be going on if planes that were
determined to be not in compliance were removed from competition as finalists
and top finishers these last 2 years as has happened to people in the
past. Tough love, yes.<BR><BR>I vote we give Derek a break next summer -
doesn't he already have that shirt with the bulls eye on
it?<BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR>John Konneker wrote:
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Not the point I was trying to make.<BR>Please reread the last two
sentences of my note below.<BR>ONLY legal planes would make the finals,
semifinals and place if the procedure that has been in place were
followed.<BR>Respectfully,<BR>JLK<BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700<BR>From: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A><BR>To:
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<BR><BR>
<DIV>Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and
size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks
weight, size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule
for it and enforcing it at the Nats?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't buy it that attendance will diminish.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=EC_gmail_quote>On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jlkonn@hotmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>I have to agree with Chris.<BR>As someone has pointed out
there are basically two types that attend the Nats.<BR>Those that
go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those that
are trying to win.<BR>I have been told by more than one pilot
attending that they aren't concerned about their plane<BR>being
overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing
and are there for the fun.<BR>I think you will see an even further
decrease in attendance if everyone gets weighed at checkin.<BR>The way it
has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and
enforced.<BR>Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the
innocent.<BR>JLK<BR> <BR><BR> <BR>
<HR>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">cjm767driver@hotmail.com</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<BR><BR>I think we are
making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in
particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the
process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not
just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee
way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to
say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they
had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going
on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going
to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody
inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change
props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to
volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just
fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED.
Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to
what happened.<BR><BR>Chris (the other one)<BR><BR> <BR>krishlan
fitzsimmons wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
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<TR>
<TD style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit" vAlign=top>Where do they weigh at
a worlds event? Outside in the wind?<BR><BR>Just curious.
<BR><BR>Thx!<BR><BR>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000bf
size=3>Chris </FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 8/3/09, <A
href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">dkrev@shaw.ca</A> <I><A
href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true"><dkrev@shaw.ca></A></I></B>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: <A
href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">dkrev@shaw.ca</A> <A
href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true"><dkrev@shaw.ca></A><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<BR>To: "General
pattern discussion" <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></A><BR>Date:
Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV>We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just
saying :-)<BR>Sent from Dave's Crackberry<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: John Fuqua <<A
href="http:///mc/compose?to=johnfuqua@embarqmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</A>><BR><BR>Date:
Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 <BR>To: 'General pattern
discussion'<<A
href="http:///mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection &
Weighing<BR><BR><BR>Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of
batteries with each competitor as<BR>well as airplanes.
<BR><BR>That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight
counts. You can load as much<BR>fuel as you wish to any
weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O.
Weight.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="http:///mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="http:///mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Derek<BR>Koopowitz<BR>Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009
12:37 PM<BR>To: General pattern discussion<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<BR><BR>I don't see
an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all
items<BR>including all packs that a competitor will use.
If a competitor really<BR>wants to cheat then they will do it...
nothing we can do will stop that.<BR>I'm also hoping that random
inspections will keep people honest and the fear<BR>that if you
do fail then you will be disqualified.<BR><BR><BR>On Mon, Aug 3,
2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall <<A
href="http:///mc/compose?to=lightfoot@sc.rr.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">lightfoot@sc.rr.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <BR><BR>
I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really
work.<BR>If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too
much opportunity to<BR>change things. In particular, batteries,
which are a normally removable<BR>item, can be changed to
decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the<BR>battery
pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection
and<BR>that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel
tanks can also be<BR>under/over filled to adjust ballast for
windy
conditions.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>
If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions.
<BR><BR> <BR><BR>
Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area
immediately<BR>before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection
could happen here and<BR>shouldn't delay the flow of the
contest.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>
Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a
battery<BR>pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The
"standard" could change as<BR>technology
changes.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>
As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo
a<BR>teardown and inspection.<BR><BR> Jay
Marshall
<BR><BR> <BR><BR><BR>
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