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I agree that everyone should have a plane that is in compliance to
compete. My issue is piling a lot of duties on the volunteers as a
means of correcting the past. Derek has volunteered to do the weighing
and sizing. Is one person (Derek) expected to do this all day on check
in day by himself or how many other people is this going to take in
order to cover all day? If this counts as your judging assignment,
then it reduces the number of available judges. <br>
The NATS is the premier event for the country and I agree we should do
what we can to make sure the models are in compliance. But we are just
setting up another system that unless there is cut and dry guidance,
can be waived or ignored as in the past. And if we just had that
guidance, the current system would work fine and not result in extra
man power requirements.<br>
<br>
Just think of the can of worms, if I know my plane is overweight, I
might substitute a smaller tank or 4 cell receiver pack for a 5 cell or
substitute a micro servo that I have no intention of actually flying
and would swap out right after inspection. The answer of course is to
inventory every plane for every part and then compare that inventory
sheet with the plane later in the competition. What a man power mess
to do all of this! And what if my servo did die and I swapped it out
during competition and now my plane does not match the inventory made
at check in?<br>
<br>
Again, this discussion would never be going on if planes that were
determined to be not in compliance were removed from competition as
finalists and top finishers these last 2 years as has happened to
people in the past. Tough love, yes.<br>
<br>
I vote we give Derek a break next summer - doesn't he already have that
shirt with the bulls eye on it?<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
John Konneker wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:BLU106-W200E3A07066362476981B8CD0C0@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
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</style>Not the point I was trying to make.<br>
Please reread the last two sentences of my note below.<br>
ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the
procedure that has been in place were followed.<br>
Respectfully,<br>
JLK<br>
<br>
<hr id="stopSpelling">
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<br>
<br>
<div>Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and
size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight,
size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it
and enforcing it at the Nats?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I don't buy it that attendance will diminish.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="EC_gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John
Konneker <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com">jlkonn@hotmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="EC_gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>I have to agree with Chris.<br>
As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend
the Nats.<br>
Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those
that are trying to win.<br>
I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't
concerned about their plane<br>
being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or
placing and are there for the fun.<br>
I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone
gets weighed at checkin.<br>
The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and
enforced.<br>
Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent.<br>
JLK<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<hr>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">cjm767driver@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<br>
<br>
I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at
anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go
through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists
already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that
already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and
measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they
fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this
discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure
(weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do
and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the
plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx
battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to
100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be
fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an
overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened.<br>
<br>
Chris (the other one)<br>
<br>
<br>
krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:
<blockquote>
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<td style="font-family: inherit;" valign="top">Where do
they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind?<br>
<br>
Just curious. <br>
<br>
Thx!<br>
<br>
<div><strong><em><font color="#0000bf" face="comic sans ms"
size="3">Chris </font></em></strong></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Mon, 8/3/09, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca">dkrev@shaw.ca</a> <i><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca"><dkrev@shaw.ca></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca">dkrev@shaw.ca</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dkrev@shaw.ca"><dkrev@shaw.ca></a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM<br>
<br>
<div>We got weighed after each round at the worlds.....
Just saying :-)<br>
Sent from Dave's Crackberry<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John Fuqua <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http:///mc/compose?to=johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 <br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http:///mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<br>
<br>
<br>
Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each
competitor as<br>
well as airplanes. <br>
<br>
That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as
much<br>
fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O.
Weight.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http:///mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http:///mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Derek<br>
Koopowitz<br>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing<br>
<br>
I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items<br>
including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really<br>
wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that.<br>
I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the
fear<br>
that if you do fail then you will be disqualified.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http:///mc/compose?to=lightfoot@sc.rr.com">lightfoot@sc.rr.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work.<br>
If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much
opportunity to<br>
change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable<br>
item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we
"sticker" the<br>
battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection
and<br>
that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also
be<br>
under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately<br>
before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and<br>
shouldn't delay the flow of the contest.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery<br>
pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as<br>
technology changes.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a<br>
teardown and inspection.<br>
<br>
Jay Marshall <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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