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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Of course, this is in reference to the existing Masters dilemma.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>krishlan
fitzsimmons<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 03, 2009 2:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>2.</span></i><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is no perfect system</span><o:p></o:p></i></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So equal exposure like FAI had isn't a perfect system? I think
it worked perfect for them. <span style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in'><img width=100 height=100 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:~WRD000.jpg"
alt="Image removed by sender."></span>And it was actually fast as they didn't
have too many pilots. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#0000BF'>Chris </span></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
--- On <b>Mon, 8/3/09, michael s harrison <i><drmikedds@sbcglobal.net></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: michael s harrison <drmikedds@sbcglobal.net><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:01 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=yiv2073993726>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
want to make 3 points. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>1.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Seeding is absolutely critical</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>2.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is no perfect system</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>3.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There are very limited resources and personnel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Seeding
is the key to any worthwhile system. It is imperative that pilots are
seeded at least thru the top ten. It will be rare indeed if somehow
that didn’t get the job done. All this is about the last couple of
pilots making or not making the cut to the finals. Favorites or
otherwise not making the cut happens in every kind of competition. No
matter what system we design, there will be those that feel they were short
changed. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There
is no perfect system, whether you choose the old system or Jerry’s or anyone
else’s. I personally think the system in place is as good as any.
No matter the system there is an element of good fortune involved for some
and bad fortune for others. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Increasing
the pilot pool in the finals to 12 people is overbearing. That becomes
48 flights or more than 8 hours. The way it is presently done, that
would be about a 12 hour day. That is absurdly long and
impractical. If you look at what you have it could be changed to 10
pilots with 3 rounds in the finals and that would that about 5 hours actual
flying time, maybe 6 hours total. About half the time. Also, 3 judging
panels instead of 4. One less break. Less work for
everyone. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Atwood,
Mark<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 03, 2009 1:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This
is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both
formats. In the Matrix system, two “weaker” (no bashing, just being honest)
groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against
each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who
are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this
years case that was Arch and Frak). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The
4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to
force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking
the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won’t have 4 of the
best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance
that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people
that we have experience with.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In
both cases…people have to stay true to the “Goal”. Which is really to
make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We’re trying to pick the
National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8<sup>th</sup> place guys.
Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the
top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the
champion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place
individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the
finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s
even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose
the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek
Koopowitz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Seeding
would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current
matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson
showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With
Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the
normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not
trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should
adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level
the playing field for everyone.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt <<a
href="/mc/compose?to=flyintexan@att.net" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>flyintexan@att.net</span></u></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it
is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the
same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would
seeding not become even more critical in this scenario?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mark<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Anthony Romano <<a
href="/mc/compose?to=anthonyr105@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>anthonyr105@hotmail.com</span></u></a>> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Monday, August 3,
2009 11:56:34 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>
Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be
used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group.<br>
<br>
Anthony<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Date:
Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700<br>
From: <a href="/mc/compose?to=derekkoopowitz@gmail.com" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</span></u></a><br>
To: <a href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Jerry
Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each
pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3
from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this
because the current format does not work. We also need to do something
about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua <<a
href="/mc/compose?to=johnfuqua@embarqmail.com" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</span></u></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Every
Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing<br>
Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it
even<br>
thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job
when<br>
we compete for runway space and days to fly.<br>
<br>
I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not
do<br>
that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment<br>
about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it
cost<br>
more than a typical Nats so factor that in.<br>
<br>
No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current<br>
format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters.<br>
I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system<br>
that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round
finals. At<br>
least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather<br>
exposure per round.<br>
<br>
John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
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href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>]
On Behalf Of Tony<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM<br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?<br>
<br>
That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to
a 2<br>
week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together,
HQ<br>
can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group<br>
would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a<br>
group of people to every site.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tony Stillman, President<br>
<br>
Radio South, Inc.<br>
<br>
139 Altama Connector, Box 322<br>
<br>
Brunswick, GA 31525<br>
<br>
1-800-962-7802<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.radiosouthrc.com/" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>www.radiosouthrc.com</span></u></a><br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
From: <a href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a><br>
[mailto:<a href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><u><span style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>]
On Behalf Of Tim Taylor<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It was done, It was called NPAC<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tim<br>
<br>
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email <<a
href="/mc/compose?to=wemodels@cox.net" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>wemodels@cox.net</span></u></a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Bill's Email <<a
href="/mc/compose?to=wemodels@cox.net" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>wemodels@cox.net</span></u></a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll -
Relocate the Nats in<br>
2010?<br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><u><span
style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></u></a>><br>
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM<br>
<br>
Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC
and NSRCA do not<br>
need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon<br>
knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as<br>
well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on??<br>
<br>
<br>
Tony wrote:<br>
<br>
Matt:<br>
Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is
actually feasible. The<br>
problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will<br>
require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very
difficult<br>
to actually find places that can handle this group.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tony Stillman, President<br>
<br>
Radio South, Inc.<br>
<br>
139 Altama Connector, Box 322<br>
<br>
Brunswick, GA 31525<br>
<br>
1-800-962-7802<o:p></o:p></p>
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