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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I can see it now – a hybrid R/C
plane…..</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
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<p><b><i><font size=4 color=navy face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:
italic'>Jay Marshall</span></font></i></b><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>mike mueller<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>July 31, 2009</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>8:41 AM</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>General pattern
discussion</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
FW: nats format</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> Wow that's a great thought. My Fatboy Sickle
flys better at a weight above 11 pounds so I can put fuel in it for balast?
Thanks for the great idea. Mike<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Fri, 7/31/09, krishlan fitzsimmons <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: krishlan fitzsimmons <homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 2:30 AM</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I don't think the
weight (personnel) issue is a big deal. So we do it on Tuesday. FAI-
Advanced weight opposite of when they fly, Masters-Intermediate weigh
opposite of when they fly. We have one person weighing, one person
measuring. Or maybe one person can do both. Should be easy to handle if
everyone has to bring their plane, and batteries to the garage, get
weighed, measured, get some type of weight sticker on your plane, and some
type of weight band on your batteries. <br>
<br>
Now let me ask this. There is no rule that I am aware of that says I can't
put a full tank of fuel in my electric right on windy days? <img width=18
height=18 src="http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><i><font size=3 color="#0000bf"
face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#0000BF;font-weight:bold'>Chris </span></font></i></b></em></p>
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<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Thu, 7/30/09, Glen Watson <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><ghwatson@comcast.net></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Glen Watson <ghwatson@comcast.net><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 11:04 AM</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>In the past AMA was successful in obtaining
volunteers from the surrounding<br>
community, elderly, girl/boy scouts, etc. Couldn't these types of<br>
volunteers perform admin functions of the weights and measure
process? This<br>
would also be a great time to get an equipment list survey filled out maybe<br>
even a contestant photos...<br>
<br>
~Glen W<br>
2009 no show who failed to contact Dave G -- please accept my apology<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van
Putte<br>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:20 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<br>
<br>
Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long.
The <br>
other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the
<br>
job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging <br>
pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this <br>
year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the
volunteers <br>
came up to offer to do extra judging sessions.<br>
<br>
Ron VP<br>
<br>
On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:<br>
<br>
> I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes
part <br>
> of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that
<br>
> bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane.<br>
><br>
> Arch<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
><br>
> On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte <vanputte@cox.net>
wrote:<br>
><br>
>> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the
day <br>
>> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the
job. <br>
>> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole
day <br>
>> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have
backup <br>
>> airplanes) when they could be out practicing.<br>
>><br>
>> Ron VP<br>
>> .<br>
>> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Mike,<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of
these ideas <br>
>>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of
stuff <br>
>>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year.
Pretty much <br>
>>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some
variations.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes
that <br>
>>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day
of <br>
>>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they
qualify and if <br>
>>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the
whole <br>
>>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to
be <br>
>>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends
(and <br>
>>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight
checks <br>
>>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to
be <br>
>>> determined later).<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -Derek<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- <br>
>>> discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s
harrison<br>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM<br>
>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net]<br>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM<br>
>>> To: 'Don Ramsey'<br>
>>> Subject: nats format<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to
share <br>
>>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we
have <br>
>>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers
that <br>
>>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group
is led by <br>
>>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly
and <br>
>>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has
responded to <br>
>>> our desires to make this the best national event
possible. With <br>
>>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make
that <br>
>>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as
well.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> They are:<br>
>>><br>
>>> 1. Have a finals for advanced<br>
>>><br>
>>> a. 8 finalists<br>
>>><br>
>>> b. 3 rounds<br>
>>><br>
>>> c. Judged by advanced or
intermediate judges(qualified <br>
>>> volunteers)<br>
>>><br>
>>> d. The site is open so it is not a space
issue<br>
>>><br>
>>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours<br>
>>><br>
>>> f. Do on 4th day<br>
>>><br>
>>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000
normalized score<br>
>>><br>
>>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner<br>
>>><br>
>>> 2. Modify masters accordingly<br>
>>><br>
>>> a. 3 round finals<br>
>>><br>
>>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized
score<br>
>>><br>
>>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner<br>
>>><br>
>>> d. 10 finalists<br>
>>><br>
>>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours<br>
>>><br>
>>> 3. Fai<br>
>>><br>
>>> a. 3 rounds final<br>
>>><br>
>>> b. F-11 flown 1 time<br>
>>><br>
>>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown
once<br>
>>><br>
>>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only
as a single 1000 <br>
>>> normalized score<br>
>>><br>
>>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner<br>
>>><br>
>>> f. 10 finalists<br>
>>><br>
>>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Rationale behind changes:<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Advanced<br>
>>><br>
>>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for
the <br>
>>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real
part of <br>
>>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained
with no <br>
>>> additional personnel required. It could be started and
finished <br>
>>> before the masters and fai is done.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Masters<br>
>>><br>
>>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How
many times <br>
>>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is
the <br>
>>> best in that class. The present system is 10
times! The only <br>
>>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have
merit. The <br>
>>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less
time. I <br>
>>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument
that <br>
>>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal
exposure. <br>
>>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion
a <br>
>>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of
3 <br>
>>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect
scoring <br>
>>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights
to <br>
>>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims
score can <br>
>>> be dropped.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> FAI<br>
>>><br>
>>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the
world <br>
>>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of
the <br>
>>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can
change <br>
>>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.
This <br>
>>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at
the nats <br>
>>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as
a <br>
>>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can
be <br>
>>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.
The <br>
>>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.
Count 3 <br>
>>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F
schedule first, then <br>
>>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would
love to see <br>
>>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the
world. <br>
>>> It would be a showcase event.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> To conclude:<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add
finals to <br>
>>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened;
the <br>
>>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in
the <br>
>>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.<br>
>>><br>
>>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be
objections <br>
>>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should
<br>
>>> be implemented.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Respectfully<br>
>>><br>
>>> Mike Harrison<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank" rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank" rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
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