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Good ideas!<BR>
I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals added for those two classes...<BR>
a lot!<BR>
I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It really would be a party then!<BR>
;-)<BR>
To play the devil's advocate...<BR>
How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening?<BR>
JLK<BR> <BR>
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From: atwoodm@paragon-inc.com<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<BR><BR>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I’ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I’d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you’ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I’d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday…I’d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone’s success. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We’re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we’ve spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it’s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes…it’s your last chance to make the finals. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">It’s a little messed up.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Thoughts??</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">-Mark</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>michael s harrison<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'General pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Don Ramsey'<BR><B>Subject:</B> nats format</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>They are:</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>1.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Have a finals for advanced</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>a.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>8 finalists</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>b.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>3 rounds</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>c.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers)</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>d.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>The site is open so it is not a space issue</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>e.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>24 flights would take app 3 hours</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>f.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Do on 4<SUP>th</SUP> day</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>g.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>h.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>2.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Modify masters accordingly</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>a.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>3 round finals</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>b.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>c.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Count 3 of 4 for the winner</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>d.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>10 finalists</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>e.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>30 flights about 5.5 hours</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>3.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Fai</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>a.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>3 rounds final</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>b.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>F-11 flown 1 time</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>c.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Each unknown(1&2) flown once</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>d.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>e.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>Count 3 of 4 for the winner</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>f.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>10 finalists</P>
<P class=EC_MsoListParagraph style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN>g.<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></SPAN>30 flights about 5.5 hours</P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>Rationale behind changes:</P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>Advanced </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4<SUP>th</SUP> day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>Masters </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>FAI</P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn’t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>To conclude:</P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>Respectfully</P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal>Mike Harrison</P>
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