<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>This plan is sounding better and better........mmmm Tim's cookin!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "shinden1@cox.net" <shinden1@cox.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25:28 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<BR></FONT><BR>I Agree Mike ,,,<BR>the banquet used to mean something when we announced "who" made the finals in each class ,,, <BR>Lets have it at the Site Wed night. I have talked with Ron About Tim Landry cooking for the event ,,,he is willing to do it so, I don`t see a problem providing quality food for everybody as he is used to cooking for very large events. <BR>Lets put the fun and Excitement back in the event for all of us.<BR><BR>We could also showcase and tally the votes for the "BEST OF SHOW" Award ,there is a lot of work put into this and
interest has declined in the last few years this would showcase these models better.<BR>venders could also set up booths like the old days.<BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR>---- michael s harrison <<A href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" ymailto="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</A>> wrote: <BR>> I was going to put off the discussion of the banquet to a later time, but I<BR>> would recommend the banquet be as follows:<BR>> <BR>> 1. Do the night before the finals<BR>> <BR>> 2. Do on site under a big tent-AMA has those<BR>> <BR>> 3. Cater from someone like Outback<BR>> <BR>> 4. Keep the sites open for flying<BR>> <BR>> This would allow competitors to fly and enjoy the company. There can be and<BR>> meeting and presentations. It can be a gala affair. Probably be best to do<BR>> that on site 1.
The banquet has pretty much become a bust and I sacrificed<BR>> my practice time to go and regretted it. Won't do that again. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Too many people leave after the finals because of the long drive or other<BR>> commitments so I would recommend the night before the finals.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Mike <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>> [mailto:<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of John Konneker<BR>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:56 AM<BR>> To: Discussion List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Good
ideas!<BR>> I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of<BR>> a finals added for those two classes...<BR>> a lot!<BR>> I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It<BR>> really would be a party then!<BR>> ;-)<BR>> To play the devil's advocate...<BR>> How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that<BR>> last evening?<BR>> JLK<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _____ <BR>> <BR>> From: <A href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" ymailto="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</A><BR>> To: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<BR>> <BR>> I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add
to<BR>> Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as<BR>> well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have<BR>> time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations,<BR>> and it keeps more people around for the last day. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day<BR>> can be a Friday, or a Saturday.I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event<BR>> rather than be in the middle.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see<BR>> everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to<BR>> celebrate everyone's success. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening<BR>> that everyone is MOST
concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice.<BR>> We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only<BR>> get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of<BR>> the year that we've spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it's getting a<BR>> flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other <A href="http://classes.it/" target=_blank>classes.it</A>'s your last<BR>> chance to make the finals. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> It's a little messed up.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Thoughts??<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -Mark<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>> [mailto:<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] On Behalf Of michael s<BR>> harrison<BR>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM<BR>> To: 'General pattern discussion'<BR>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:<A href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" ymailto="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</A>] <BR>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM<BR>> To: 'Don Ramsey'<BR>> Subject: nats format<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of<BR>> the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to<BR>> have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the<BR>> nats happen. That group is led by the event
director Dave Guerin, who has<BR>> worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has<BR>> responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.<BR>> With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would<BR>> be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> They are:<BR>> <BR>> 1. Have a finals for advanced<BR>> <BR>> a. 8 finalists<BR>> <BR>> b. 3 rounds<BR>> <BR>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers)<BR>> <BR>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue<BR>> <BR>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours<BR>> <BR>> f. Do on 4th day<BR>> <BR>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000
normalized score<BR>> <BR>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner<BR>> <BR>> 2. Modify masters accordingly<BR>> <BR>> a. 3 round finals<BR>> <BR>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score<BR>> <BR>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner<BR>> <BR>> d. 10 finalists<BR>> <BR>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours<BR>> <BR>> 3. Fai<BR>> <BR>> a. 3 rounds final<BR>> <BR>> b. F-11 flown 1 time<BR>> <BR>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once<BR>> <BR>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized<BR>> score<BR>> <BR>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner<BR>> <BR>> f. 10
finalists<BR>> <BR>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Rationale behind changes:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Advanced <BR>> <BR>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.<BR>> It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This<BR>> format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It<BR>> could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Masters <BR>> <BR>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does<BR>> someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.<BR>> The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure<BR>> issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and<BR>> takes less
time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the<BR>> argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.<BR>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate<BR>> score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of<BR>> variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the<BR>> competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the<BR>> prelims score can be dropped. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> FAI<BR>> <BR>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the<BR>> semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so<BR>> large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the<BR>> semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at<BR>> the nats is only 2 flights with
20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000<BR>> normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score<BR>> carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F<BR>> pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the<BR>> F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would<BR>> love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the<BR>> world. It would be a showcase event. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> To conclude:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced;<BR>> both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be<BR>> showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the<BR>> finals. <BR>> <BR>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there
will be objections of some<BR>> kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Respectfully<BR>> <BR>> Mike Harrison<BR>> <BR>> Checked by AVG - <A href="http://www.avg.com/" target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09<BR>> 18:07:00<BR>><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>