<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">If it was wed -sat then a long drive home on Sunday (and Monday for us left coasters) then I would need a day or two to relax. I would return to work Wed. May work for some, not me. I like the tues-frid personally. <br><br><div><strong><em><font color="#0000bf" face="comic sans ms" size="3">Chris </font></em></strong></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 7/30/09, Atwood, Mark <i><atwoodm@paragon-inc.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Atwood, Mark <atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format<br>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 6:29 AM<br><br><div id="yiv796568037">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">There in lies the rub.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think MANY would stay if there was a reason to stay.
I’d love to see the Nat’s start on a Wed, and finish on Saturday (I
know…the AMA dictates the schedule), but that would take some of the job/vacation
pressure off trying to get home right away.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If day 3 scores were NOT posted (‘cept to announce the
finalists…and that would just be names, not scores), and there was a
serious “event” following Finals day, I think MANY would stay as
that would end the Nationals for everyone.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The Final evening would be a party. Dinner, awards,
raffle, etc. No one needs to practice, everyone leaves town in the
morning. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">As it stands now, we all depart over a period of 3 days.
FAI starts to depart on day 2 if we miss the semi-finals. Int/Adv all
leave on day 3 along with FAI and Masters that miss the cut, the finalists
depart either on Day 4, or many stay the night and leave on day 5.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">In addition to not having any real celebration (especially for
the winners) we also lose all of our help. Both formal and
informal. Yes, we’re low on judges, but pilots lose their callers
and helpers. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If a LOT of people needed to stay (those involved in the finals,
flying, judging, scoring, helping with the banquet, whatever) even more people
would stay to participate. And you would simply plan for it. The
Nats would be thought of as a 4 day event and people would schedule
that. As it stands now, it varies based on how well you fly.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Konneker<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Good
ideas!<br>
I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a
finals added for those two classes...<br>
a lot!<br>
I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the
Nats. It really would be a party then!<br>
;-)<br>
To play the devil's advocate...<br>
How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last
evening?<br>
JLK<br>
</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">From: atwoodm@paragon-inc.com<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but
I’d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both
an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the
finalists to 8, and you’ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals
day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around
for the last day. </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same
day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday…I’d
like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day
to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the
end to celebrate everyone’s success. </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on
the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of
practice. We’re forced to choose between spending quality time with
friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE
competition of the year that we’ve spent all year prepping for. For
FAI, it’s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other
classes…it’s your last chance to make the finals. </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It’s a little messed up.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thoughts??</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-Mark</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>michael s
harrison<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> michael s harrison
[mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Don Ramsey'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> nats format</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">After
considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats
and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an
excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.
That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly
and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our
desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind,
there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for
everyone and reduce the workload as well. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">They
are:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">1.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Have a
finals for advanced</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">a.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">8 finalists</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">b.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">3 rounds</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">c.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Judged by advanced
or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">d.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">The site is open so
it is not a space issue</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">e.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">24 flights would
take app 3 hours</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">f.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Do on 4<sup>th</sup>
day</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">g.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Count the prelims
as a 1000 normalized score</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">h.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Count 3 of 4 scores
for the winner</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">2.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Modify
masters accordingly</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">a.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">3 round finals</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">b.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Count prelims as a
1000 normalized score</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">c.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Count 3 of 4 for
the winner</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">d.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">10 finalists</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">e.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">30 flights about
5.5 hours</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">3.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Fai</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">a.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">3 rounds final</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">b.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">F-11 flown 1 time</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">c.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Each
unknown(1&2) flown once</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">d.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Count the
semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">e.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Count 3 of 4 for
the winner</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">f.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">10 finalists</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">g.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">30 flights about
5.5 hours</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Rationale
behind changes:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Advanced
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">This
would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It
would make the 4<sup>th</sup> day a very real part of the nats for them.
This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel
required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is
done. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Masters
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Masters
is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have
to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The
present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure
issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that
issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to
close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal
exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a
legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a
number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure,
etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights
count so the prelims score can be dropped. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">FAI</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">The
argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the
semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large
that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the
semifinals. This rationale wouldn’t apply at the nats. The
semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score
as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined
to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes
a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I
would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe
all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the
best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">To
conclude:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">I
believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced;
both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be
showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the
finals. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">There
is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind,
but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Respectfully</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Mike
Harrison</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Checked
by AVG - www.avg.com<br>
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09
18:07:00</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";"></span></p>
</div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Checked by
AVG - www.avg.com<br>
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09
18:07:00</span></p>
</div>
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