<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div>did that buzzard survive......<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Verne Koester <verne@twmi.rr.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit
on the 4<sup>th</sup> flight on a new plane a few years back, I’ve had nine
mid-airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a mid-air
at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. Contests are the only
time I’ll even fly with another plane in the air and that’s only if it’s an
actual scored round. A few mid-airs will do that to ya.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Verne</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vicente
"Vince" Bortone<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Hi Verne,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">You are
correct. I had a collision two years ago at the Nats. I was allowed
to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get me time to be
ready. The main problem for the pilot after this event is that we pay
more attention to the other plane. It is very hard to get it out of your
mind after having this situation. It is practically impossible to avoid
collisions by calling the avoidance. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;">Vicente
"Vince" Bortone</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Verne Koester" <verne@twmi.rr.com><br>
To: jpavlick@idseng.com, "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">From the AMA Rulebook:</span><span style="color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">10.3: </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">In the case of a collision during a
Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They
may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to
be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the
maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the
collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times
will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than
two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane.
Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent
maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the
round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Hope this helps
though it’s little comfort when put to use,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Verne Koester</span><span style="color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: black;"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Pavlick<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks</span><span style="color: black;"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bill,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order
to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a
midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero
all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or
not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also
lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a
4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :(</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all
means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you
won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John Pavlick<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford <i><astafford@swtexas.net></i></b>
wrote:</p>
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From: Archie Stafford <astafford@swtexas.net><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no
way to be certain of<br>
an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really
aren't<br>
going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some that
looked<br>
very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when<br>
they didn't look that close. <br>
<br>
In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen<br>
people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually<br>
turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just stayed on<br>
their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better off,
just<br>
flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens<br>
unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is<br>
virtually impossible.<br>
<br>
Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. Trying
avoid<br>
them usually causes more problems than it solves.<br>
<br>
Arch<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of
Bill's Email<br>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks<br>
<br>
I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is <br>
mentioned.<br>
<br>
Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is <br>
downgraded for doing so?<br>
<br>
We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot <br>
avoid a mid-air without penalty?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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