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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well... I do delcare!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Wayne Galligan<BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=humptybump@sbcglobal.net
href="mailto:humptybump@sbcglobal.net">Richard Lewis</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=aabdu@sbcglobal.net
href="mailto:aabdu@sbcglobal.net">aabdu@sbcglobal.net</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP -
Advancement</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">
<DIV>You're supposed to go from winning Intermediate to bringing up the rear
in Advanced, that's the basic idea of moving up. If everyone stayed in
Intermediate until they could win Advanced, then we'd be arguing to keep
forced advancement......Do you want/need to go back to Intermediate? If
the rule was that you had to fly a declared class or higher for a season,
how would circumstances of life changes over "5 or 6 seasons" come into
play.....Without forced advancement, you could start the season in
Sporstman every year if you need to.....I'm still not sure what scenarios
could occur within a single 5 or 6 month contest season that would necessitate
someone moving from Advanced to back to Sportsman in the middle of that
season.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you've practiced all winter 3-4 times a week in Advanced, flown two
contests, and then change jobs, or lose an airplane mid-season and can no
longer practice regulary, is anyone going to move back to
Intermediate? Sequences only change in the off-season, not sure why that
would cause anyone to have to move down during a single season? If I
flew Masters last year, and was scared to fly a new Masters sequence for some
reason, then I could declare for Advanced in the upcoming season....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Richard</DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Anthony Abdullah
<aabdu@sbcglobal.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:40:34
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement<BR></FONT><BR>
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<DIV>Gotta agree with Mark on that one. I went from winning the district
championship in Intermediate to bringing up the rear in Advanced. Other
than being a hack of a pilot it was a matter of circumstance. I started
and finished graduate school, we lost my primary and conveniently
located flying field, I changed jobs, and then when I thought I was all
set for a great come back year, I lost my primary competition plane
early in the spring. This was all over the course of 5 or 6 seasons and
the sequence changed at least once during that time. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mind you, I have not quite pointed out of advanced but I can
certainly understand how a change in circumstances can change a person's
ability to be competitive in a certain class.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Anthony</DIV>
<DIV>NSRCA #759<BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 5/13/09, Atwood, Mark
<I><atwoodm@paragon-inc.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:
Atwood, Mark <atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement<BR>To:
"'nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Wednesday, May 13,
2009, 12:27 PM<BR><BR><PRE>Has this caused a problem beteen FAI and Masters? People are free to move about
there and it works well. I doubt there would be constant movement.
Regarding moving back, it has less to do ith ability or age (though those are
both factors) than situation. Simply changing jobs can take you from being able
to practice 3-4 times a week, to 3-4 time a summer. Add a new sequence to that
mix and suddenly your ability to participate in the higher class is gone.
I just don't see the problems with movement. There's so little in
FAI/Masters that's its hard to believe there would be a lot in lower
classes.
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
----- Original Message -----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
<nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wed May 13 12:12:56 2009
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement
I disagree that we should make it so that people can move from class-to-class
on a contest-by-contest basis. If we remove forced advancement, then we
elimitate the problem of people being forced into a class they feel they are not
ready for. That, by itself, solves the problem that may cause someone to
"need" or "want" to move back a class after
"trying" it out and finding they are not "ready" (meaning
they cannot win it on the first try????). Folks will know if they are ready to
fly the next level, the sequences are not secret and can be practiced/flown by
anyone on their own time. In order to cause them to consider their decision
carefully, they should be required to stay a minimum of a season in their chosen
class (move up if they like, not down)...If after that seaon, they want to
swallow their pride and move back, so be it....a season, even in the southern
districts is only 5 or 6 contests at most for most pilots.
Now if we are considering an older flyer who may not have the skills/ability to
compete in Masters any longer, that's a different story, and what I've
read and heard from MAsters pilots, once a person flies for some time as a
Masters pilot, they are just not gonna swallow their pride and move back to
Intermediate, no matter how easy it may be...
If we are considering the flier who tops out at Advanced and want to stay there
permanently. No forcred advancment solve that one too....
_____
From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm@paragon-inc.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:26:50 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement
I’m in favor of it being a guideline, but I don’t think that verbiage
belongs in the rule book. That’s best left for the NSRCA web site or some
other medium to describe.
As for moving down, that’s sort of the whole point. To allow people to
choose where they want to fly, up or down the classes as their time, skill, etc
allows. By nature you have to be competitive to enjoy this facet of the hobby.
If you find yourself in a situation where you are no longer competitive,
(again, lack of time, money, skill, etc) then most will simply get frustrated
and quit. I’d much prefer to see someone take a step backward, and continue
to have a rewarding experience, than to lose them from the sport.
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:01 AM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement
I’m in favor of making advancement a guideline. Perhaps we need to cover
advancement as part of good sportsmanship and maybe include the ability for the
district to vote on whether someone is abusing the absence of a mandatory
advancement rule. For example, leave it to the discretion of the District VP or
a majority vote of the district members. If the district decides someone needs
to move up the competitor would have the option to stay where he or she is and
not qualify for prizes and district points or move up at the end of the year.
What about the ability to move down? For example, someone tries Masters for
one or two contests and then decides they are still not ready and wants to move
back down. Do the current rules properly address this?
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
ronlock@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 8:12 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement
Years ago when the Sportsman sequence was rather short, some CD's were
doing the sequence twice. A rule was written to codify the practice, and
provide suggested procedures on exit/entry between the sequences, and handle
scoring of one take off & landing, but two sequences. It's still in the
book, para 14.8. Given current length of Sportsman sequence, it's rarely
used.
Ron Lockhart
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill's Email" <wemodels@cox.net>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 7:37:29 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement
Snaproll4@aol.com wrote:
CD's used to have the ability to have Sportsman fly twice which isn't
in the rule book. They now can have an Expert class which isn't in the rule
book. Can CD's suspend the advancement rule? Just thinking out loud.
Steve
Interesting question. The AMA gives CDs broad powers to waive rules as they see
fit, but those usually pertain to the safe operation of a contest. The caveat is
that the CD must publish any variations within 30 days of the event and it is
best to list them in the sanction application. Changes can be made on the spot
due to weather, etc., but it would be hard to see how advancement fits into
that. So I suspect taht it would be difficult for a CD to do waht you suggest.
What a CD could do I suppose is to allow a certain individual to fly a lower
class, but again, that might be a stretch.
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