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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle27><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The most
useful tool for potential new pattern fliers who aren't being mentored were the
ribbon diagrams.</span></font></span><span class=EmailStyle27><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle27><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle27><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave Burton<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 11, 2009 8:21 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> jpavlick@idseng.com; 'General
pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
WRAP UP - Advancement</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>See
what happens when you hand an Aresti sportsman schedule to a potential new
pattern flyer and say: Just fly this!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Or
a new pattern flyer goes to the NSRCA web site wanting to see what he has to
fly to compete.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>While
it may be the universal aerobatic language, why make it so that it has to
be </span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:#1F497D'>“</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>translated</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>”</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'> (KISS)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Dave
Burton<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;border:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Pavlick<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 11, 2009 11:08
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
WRAP UP - Advancement</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=626 style='width:469.5pt;
mso-cellspacing:0in;margin-left:.5in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Don't worry - you can make up your own
call cards that are "translated" to English. Aresti is the
universal language of Precision Aerobatics. It would be nice to see all of
our schedules presented this way. I'm tired of explaining what a stall-turn
is to people who fly full-scale or IMAC. :)</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>John Pavlick<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 5/11/09, Dave Burton <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><burtona@atmc.net></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: Dave
Burton <burtona@atmc.net><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 2:57 PM</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>
<div id=yiv1059660969>Please, no!</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'> No way I</span></font><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>m going to get my practice caller to learn Aresti! It</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:
Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>’</span></font><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>s hard enough to get her to go out and read the
English descriptions from the lounge chair.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:black'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Archie Stafford<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 11, 2009 10:53
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
WRAP UP - Advancement</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>One thing that might be beneficial for number 2 is the
use of Aresti for sequences. I HATED it when I first started playing
with it in IMAC, but now that I understand it, it does make life pretty
easy. There are also a couple of websites that really break it down and
make it easy to understand. </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Arch</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
border:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:black'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Mark Hunt<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 11, 2009 9:43
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
WRAP UP - Advancement</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>I would support 1 and 2.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>2 will require a good bit of effort in writing downgrade
descriptions that cover all basic manuever concepts that could be put into
NSRCA written sequences. The IMAC rules are written and illustrated
very well in this regard. Might be easier if a few people worked
together on this to split up some of the work.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>-mark</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> J N Hiller <jnhiller@earthlink.net><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 11, 2009
9:08:49 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
WRAP UP - Advancement<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
OK Mark I will hold.<br>
I agree with and would support both 1&2.<br>
Jim Hiller<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a>]On
Behalf Of Atwood, Mark<br>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 6:36 AM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WRAP UP - Advancement<br>
<br>
Not that the debate on 2 vs 3 rolls isn't fascinating, but....<br>
<br>
Can we wrap up the original discussion regarding advancement?<br>
<br>
I heard a semi consensus on 2 things that I think we should aggressively<br>
pursue<br>
<br>
1) Removing any forced advancement rules (possibly changing to a guideline,<br>
or possibly eliminating the language altogether)<br>
Reason: Forced advancement simply harms more
people than it helps.<br>
Very few if any abuse the system, while many have been compelled to fly in a<br>
class inappropriate to their skills or comfort, discouraging some, causing<br>
others to quit, and overall reducing the level of enjoyment contrary to what<br>
the rule was intended for. A guideline would still be valuable to help<br>
those who are trying to make the advancement decision, however that may be<br>
better placed outside of the Rule Book (such as the NSRCA web site)<br>
<br>
2) Removal of the pattern schedules from the rule book, in an effort to<br>
simplify the change procedure.<br>
Reason: In conjunction with the change above,
virtually every class<br>
is a "destination" class for some, and as such, some variety is desirable
at<br>
every level. De-coupling the sequences from the rule book would allow<br>
greater ease in changing the schedules, and greater ease of change also<br>
reduces the critical nature of "getting it right" the first time,
which<br>
would allow for more creativity and experiementation.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thoughts??<br>
<br>
How do we get this done...<br>
<br>
-Mark<br>
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<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>_______________________________________________</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><font
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