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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I think there is some confusion here. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I can't find any reference to three consecutive
rolls in the curent Master's schedule, however, there is a three roll opposite
in P-09. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>The maneuver currently being considered was in the
old Intermediate schedule and was three rolls performed consecutively, no
reversals, just keep it constantly rotating </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>until the completion of the third
element.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Most individuals used to set up their airframes so
that full aileron deflection would result in the airplane performing three rolls
in approximately five seconds. This roll rate was </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>slow enough to allow a normal human being to keep
up with the thought processes required to input the necessary corrections
required to result in the roll appearing axial.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>At this roll rate, an airplane traveling
approximately 60 mph used up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 feet of
horizontal travel. The distance between the poles at</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>150 meters is around 1575 feet, so you can see that
this leaves about 567 feet before you even started the roll to get set up and a
similar recovery distance after roll</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>completion. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Now I realize that the rule book says that it may
be appropriate to fly a smaller model in closer ( I think it references 140-130
meters) so the distance shortens significantly</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>as you move in, but even at just 100 meters the
breathing room on each end is still over 300 feet, so it should be apparrent
that space is really not a limiting factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>With regards the three rolls opposite in P-09, it's
a totally different bag of worms. For me, it requires that I slow the rate down
even further because my old brain can't keep</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>up with all those reversing inputs, so for me, this
one uses quite a bit of the box.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Jim, correct me on stuff I screwed up
here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Georgie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John
Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What schedule are we talking about? I thought it
was the Masters schedule. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet4@verizon.net href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">George
W.Kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:18
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>Remember, the maneuver is performed after a
previous box exit. So, you enter the box, have all day to set up for
it, and you're only doing 1 & 1/2 rolls either side of
center. I've seen guys use this much space doing the current 2 point with a
significant hesitation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>Archie is right on the money. That's the reason
I use the old, old Intermediate schedule to train newbies. If I
can get 'em thru this thing, then the current schedules are duck soup for
them. It's like practicing the P-09 and then going to a contest and
flying Sportsman. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John
Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:18
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Georgie,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Did you ever see anyone REALLY grease that
maneuver? I haven't. It ALWAYS looks rushed. And these are Masters pilots.
Big difference between them and Intermediate pilots. The only way it would
work is if both turnarounds (before and after the maneuver) were something
like a stall turn or a half square loop. Anything else would be tough for
an Intermediate pilot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet4@verizon.net href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">George
W.Kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:21
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Isn't it amazing that we have combination
maneuvers like Two of Two folowed by a Slow Roll opposite all on
one line, including entry and exit lines, and people still think that
you can't get three consecutive rolls in the box.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stymies me !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Who else?</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ghwatson@comcast.net href="mailto:ghwatson@comcast.net">Glen
Watson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chuck,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In the early
nineties when I got started in pattern the Sportsman sequence now
known as Intermediate had three rolls. I flew 2cycle then
(Saphire, LA-1) and had no problem fitting the maneuver in the box as
well as centering. I believe this built many early skill sets
that have helped me in the long run over the
years.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’m of the
opinion pattern sequences should present challenges to ones current
skill set. Without a challenge why do pattern at
all.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Glen<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Chuck
Hochhalter<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:15 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Anyone notice how much
airpace 3 rolls takes in FAI... I don’t think they lower class has the
box management skills to fit 3 rolls into the box, let alone be ready
to center them.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Chuck</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<A title=ronlock@comcast.net
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
Friday, May 08, 2009 9:25 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement
System<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Re comments
below-<BR>I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence
has two rolls, and not three, is-<BR>Figuring two rolls are challenge
and training enough for most intermediate pilots -<BR>And two is
enough for judging- Particularly, if you see two going badly,
not many of us<BR>want to see a third.<BR><BR>Also below - having to
move out of Sportsman after first year because of beating 4 other
pilots -<BR>That is already fixed. The 2009 rule "..flier
must move out of Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of
his/her second or subsequent year of participation if he/she places
first or second and above at least 4 other fliers..."<BR><BR>Ron
Lockhart<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Ron Hansen"
<rcpilot@wowway.com><BR>To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009
10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve been
flying intermediate for about 3 years going on 4. The two rolls
are still kicking my you know what. I can do one slow roll and
one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls. I’m certain that
the average advance pilot would really have trouble with 3
rolls. I see a lot of intermediate, advanced and sometimes even
masters pilots almost loose airplanes on the horizontal rolling
maneuvers. They shouldn’t be underestimated.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I agree with
Mark, lets make advancement at all levels a guideline. I had to
move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first year in
sportsman because I beat 4 other pilots. I was flying a Kaos and
the other pilots were all flying their 1<SUP>st</SUP> contests with
trainers. They had no chance. In the end I’m glade I moved
up but at the time it made me real nervous. I was so determined
to fly pattern that I decided to give it the old college try in
intermediate.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think
Advance could use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted.
Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty
good.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ron
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Richard
Lewis<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday,
May 08, 2009 4:38 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">There is a provision in the
current rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of the
competition regulations....<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Richard<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
"jeffghughes@comcast.net" <jeffghughes@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bob,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I understand
completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've
been to one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my
confidence along with it. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeff</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mark Atwood"
<atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><BR>To: "<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009
2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri
color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">I know
you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great example of
someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through the
system, but then when you got to Masters…a time when you really need
to practice even more to be competitive, your job suddenly
changed, home life became more complex, and you’re lucky to fly
10 practice flights a year outside of contests. Your
experience and skill would allow you to be competitive in Advanced,
without dominating and likely have a lot more fun being a spoiler to
that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without hardly even
knowing the pattern.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri
color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">You’re
the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where
they fly (which pattern) and have the most enjoyment.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Kane<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern
discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hey, I resemble that remark . .
. . . . .<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Bob
Kane<BR>getterflash@yahoo.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
"jeffghughes@comcast.net" <jeffghughes@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Don Ramsey
<don.ramsey@suddenlink.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009
12:17:58 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is all
pretty interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care
who beat me when I was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I
was seeing the skill level necessary to win. While it's nice to win a
trophy in the lower classes, I understood I wasn't competing against
the best pilots anyway. From what I've seen there is a huge
variation of talent within a class anyway. I've seen Masters
pilots fly that wouldn't win in advanced if they bumped back down
(maybe not even in intermediate). People move up for all kinds of
reasons unrelated to skill level. It's also interesting that we
talk about using each class to improve our flying until we get to
Masters, then it appears nobody wants to improve to FAI.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No virus
found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com/" target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>Version:
8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2103 - Release Date: 05/07/09
18:05:00</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><BR><BR>__________ Information
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
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