<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Not confusion - just a few different things going on at once. :) The original discussion was on putting a 3 horizontal roll "maneuver" into the Intermediate sequence where there is currently a 2-roll maneuver. This led to a reference to the older sequences that had 3-roll and even 3-loop maneuvers in the lower classes. I tried to prove my point: an Intermediate pilot may have a problem doing 3 nice, well controlled rolls without breaking the box on a turnaround unless the turnarounds where properly chosen to provide more room. I did this by pointing out the fact that I've seen many Masters pilots have trouble with the 2 of 2 + slow roll reversed (it looks rushed). Not the same maneuver but the same basic problem: it's easy to get into a rushed situation if you're not careful. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And remember, this whole thing started out with a simple question: "Is the Masters schedule too long?" LOL</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Pavlick<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 5/11/09, George W.Kennie <I><geobet4@verizon.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: George W.Kennie <geobet4@verizon.net><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 6:19 PM<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I think there is some confusion here. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I can't find any reference to three consecutive rolls in the <SPAN>curent</SPAN> Master's schedule, however, there is a three roll opposite in P-09. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>The maneuver currently being considered was in the old Intermediate schedule and was three rolls performed consecutively, no reversals, just keep it constantly rotating </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>until the completion of the third element.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Most individuals used to set up their airframes so that full aileron deflection would result in the airplane performing three rolls in approximately five seconds. This roll rate was </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>slow enough to allow a normal human being to keep up with the thought processes required to input the necessary corrections required to result in the roll appearing axial.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>At this roll rate, an airplane traveling approximately 60 mph used up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 feet of horizontal travel. The distance between the poles at</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>150 meters is around 1575 feet, so you can see that this leaves about 567 feet before you even started the roll to get set up and a similar recovery distance after roll</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>completion. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Now I realize that the rule book says that it may be appropriate to fly a smaller model in closer ( I think it references 140-130 meters) so the distance shortens significantly</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>as you move in, but even at just 100 meters the breathing room on each end is still over 300 feet, so it should be apparrent that space is really not a limiting factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>With regards the three rolls opposite in P-09, it's a totally different bag of worms. For me, it requires that I slow the rate down even further because my old brain can't keep</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>up with all those reversing inputs, so for me, this one uses quite a bit of the box.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Jim, correct me on stuff I screwed up here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Georgie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>John Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What schedule are we talking about? I thought it was the Masters schedule. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=geobet4@verizon.net href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>George W.Kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>Remember, the maneuver is performed after a previous box exit. So, you enter the box, have all day to set up for it, and you're only doing 1 & 1/2 rolls either side of center. I've seen guys use this much space doing the current 2 point with a significant hesitation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>Archie is right on the money. That's the reason I use the old, old Intermediate schedule to train newbies. If I can get 'em thru this thing, then the current schedules are duck soup for them. It's like practicing the P-09 and then going to a contest and flying Sportsman. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>John Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Georgie,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Did you ever see anyone REALLY grease that maneuver? I haven't. It ALWAYS looks rushed. And these are Masters pilots. Big difference between them and Intermediate pilots. The only way it would work is if both turnarounds (before and after the maneuver) were something like a stall turn or a half square loop. Anything else would be tough for an Intermediate pilot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=geobet4@verizon.net href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>George W.Kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:21 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Isn't it amazing that we have combination maneuvers like Two of Two folowed by a Slow Roll opposite all on one line, including entry and exit lines, and people still think that you can't get three consecutive rolls in the box.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stymies me !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Who else?</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=ghwatson@comcast.net href="mailto:ghwatson@comcast.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Glen Watson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>'General pattern discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chuck,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In the early nineties when I got started in pattern the Sportsman sequence now known as Intermediate had three rolls. I flew 2cycle then (Saphire, LA-1) and had no problem fitting the maneuver in the box as well as centering. I believe this built many early skill sets that have helped me in the long run over the years.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’m of the opinion pattern sequences should present challenges to ones current skill set. Without a challenge why do pattern at all.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Glen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Chuck Hochhalter<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:15 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Anyone notice how much airpace 3 rolls takes in FAI... I don’t think they lower class has the box management skills to fit 3 rolls into the box, let alone be ready to center them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Chuck</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A title=ronlock@comcast.net href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>ronlock@comcast.net</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Friday, May 08, 2009 9:25 PM</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Re comments below-<BR>I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two rolls, and not three, is-<BR>Figuring two rolls are challenge and training enough for most intermediate pilots -<BR>And two is enough for judging- Particularly, if you see two going badly, not many of us<BR>want to see a third.<BR><BR>Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year because of beating 4 other pilots -<BR>That is already fixed. The 2009 rule "..flier must move out of Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second or subsequent year of participation if he/she places first or second and above at least 4 other fliers..."<BR><BR>Ron Lockhart<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Ron Hansen" <rcpilot@wowway.com><BR>To: " General pattern discussion "
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve been flying intermediate for about 3 years going on 4. The two rolls are still kicking my you know what. I can do one slow roll and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls. I’m certain that the average advance pilot would really have trouble with 3 rolls. I see a lot of intermediate, advanced and sometimes even masters pilots almost loose airplanes on the horizontal rolling maneuvers. They shouldn’t be underestimated.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I agree with Mark, lets make advancement at all levels a guideline. I had to move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first year in sportsman because I beat 4 other pilots. I was flying a Kaos and the other pilots were all flying their 1<SUP>st</SUP> contests with trainers. They had no chance. In the end I’m glade I moved up but at the time it made me real nervous. I was so determined to fly pattern that I decided to give it the old college try in intermediate.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think Advance could use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted. Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty good.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ron </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Richard Lewis<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">There is a provision in the current rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of the competition regulations....</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Richard</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> "jeffghughes@comcast.net" <jeffghughes@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bob,</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I understand completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've been to one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my confidence along with it. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeff</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mark Atwood" <atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><BR>To: " General pattern discussion " <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">I know you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great example of someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through the system, but then when you got to Masters…a time when you really need to practice even more to be competitive, your job suddenly changed, home life became more complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a year outside of contests. Your experience and skill would allow you to be competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more fun being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without hardly even knowing the pattern.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">You’re the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where they fly (which pattern) and have the most enjoyment. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Kane<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hey, I resemble that remark . . . . . . .</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Bob Kane<BR>getterflash@yahoo.com</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> "jeffghughes@comcast.net" <jeffghughes@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Don Ramsey <don.ramsey@suddenlink.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is all pretty interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care who beat me when I was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was seeing the skill level necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy in the lower classes, I understood I wasn't competing against the best pilots anyway. From what I've seen there is a huge variation of talent within a class anyway. I've seen Masters pilots fly that wouldn't win in advanced if they bumped back down (maybe not even in intermediate). People move up for all kinds of reasons unrelated to skill level. It's also interesting that we talk about using each class to improve our flying until we get to Masters, then it appears nobody wants to improve to FAI. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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