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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And we were doing the 3 rolls 15 years ago with MUCH faster
planes that we fly today and you could fit them in. With todays bigger planes,
that would be an easy one to fit in the box. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As Glen W said, he was doing it with a Sapphire and LA-1. Those
were MUCH faster than anything flying today. I was doing mine with a Viper and
it certainly moved along MUCH faster that today’s planes. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Those maneuvers were definitely tougher, but they also made
better pilots in the long run. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arch<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>jonlowe@aol.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Completely
different animal. They have to stop rotation to reverse direction.
Eats up a LOT more space.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John Pavlick <jpavlick@idseng.com><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sat, 9 May 2009 9:10 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_f8facdf2-1566-4e10-b551-3411d7a8b1a0">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Yup
that's what I tried to point out a while ago. But nobody ever listens to
me anyway...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>John
Pavlick<br>
<a href="http://www.idseng.com" target="_blank">http://www.idseng.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:cahochhalter@yahoo.com"
title="cahochhalter@yahoo.com">Chuck Hochhalter</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Saturday, May 09,
2009 12:15 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Anyone
notice how much airpace 3 rolls takes in FAI... I don’t think they lower class
has the box management skills to fit 3 rolls into the box, let alone be ready
to center them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Chuck</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net" title="ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Friday, May 08,
2009 9:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Re comments below-<br>
I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two rolls, and
not three, is-<br>
Figuring two rolls are challenge and training enough for most intermediate
pilots -<br>
And two is enough for judging- Particularly, if you see two going badly,
not many of us<br>
want to see a third.<br>
<br>
Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year because of
beating 4 other pilots -<br>
That is already fixed. The 2009 rule "..flier must move out of
Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second or subsequent
year of participation if he/she places first or second and above at least 4
other fliers..."<br>
<br>
Ron Lockhart<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ---- -<br>
From: "Ron Hansen" <<a href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I’ve been flying intermediate for about 3 years going on 4.
The two rolls are still kicking my you know what. I can do one slow
roll and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls. I’m certain that
the average advance pilot would really have trouble with 3 rolls. I see a
lot of intermediate, advanced and sometimes even <span class=grame>masters</span>
pilots almost loose airplanes on the horizontal rolling maneuvers. They
shouldn’t be underestimated.</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I agree with Mark, lets make advancement at all levels a
guideline. I had to move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first
year in sportsman because I beat 4 other pilots. I was flying a <span
class=spelle>Kaos</span> and the other pilots were all flying their 1<sup>st</sup>
contests with trainers. They had no chance. In the end I’m glade I
m oved up but at the time it made me real nervous. I was so determined to
fly pattern that I decided to give it the old college try in intermediate.</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I think Advance could use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted.
Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty good.</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Ron </span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of=2 0</b>Richard Lewis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>There is a provision in the
current rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of the competition
regulations....</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Richard</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;20margin-right: 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'> "<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>"
<<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Bob,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I
understand completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and
I've been to one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my confidence
along with it. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"=2 0Arial","serif";color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Mark Atwood" <<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I know you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a
great example of someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely
through the system, but then when you got to Masters…a time when you really
need to practice even more to be competitive, your job suddenly changed,
home life became more complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a
year outside of contests. Your experience and skill would allow you
to be competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more
fun being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without
hardly even knowing the pattern.</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You’re the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to
choose where they fly (which pattern) and have the most enjoyment. </span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Kane<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]20Advancement System</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hey, I resemble that remark . . .
. . . .</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Bob Kane<br>
<a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</a></span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'> "<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>"
<<a href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Don Ramsey <<a href="mailto:don.ramsey@suddenlink.net">don.ramsey@suddenlink.net</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>This
is all pretty interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care who
beat me when I was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was seeing
the skill level necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy in the lower
classes, I understood I wasn't competing against the best pilots anyway.
>From =0 A what I've seen there is a huge variation of talent within a
class anyway. I've seen Masters pilots fly that wouldn't win in advanced
if they bumped back down (maybe not even in intermediate). People move up for
all kinds of reasons unrelated to skill level. It's also interesting
that we talk about using each class to improve our flying until we get to
Masters, then it appears nobody wants to improve to FAI. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a
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<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_f8facdf2-1566-4e10-b551-3411d7a8b1a0"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________</span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
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<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span
style='color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></tt><span
style='color:black'><br>
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<tt><o:p></o:p></tt></span></pre></div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:7.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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