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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yea, remember when &nbsp;Masters had a 6pt roll?&nbsp; That was
a box eater&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>George
W.Kennie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Isn't
it amazing that we have combination maneuvers like Two of Two folowed by
a&nbsp;Slow Roll opposite all on one line, including entry and exit lines, and
people still think that you can't get three consecutive rolls in the box.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Stymies
me !</span><o:p></o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Who
else?</span>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

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<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:ghwatson@comcast.net"
title="ghwatson@comcast.net">Glen Watson</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Saturday, May 09,
2009 1:02 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Chuck,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>In the early nineties when I got started in pattern the Sportsman
sequence now known as Intermediate had three rolls.&nbsp; I flew 2cycle then
(Saphire, LA-1) and had no problem fitting the maneuver in the box as well as
centering.&nbsp; I believe this built many early skill sets that have helped me
in the long run over the years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I&#8217;m of the opinion pattern sequences should present
challenges to ones current skill set. &nbsp;Without a challenge why do pattern
at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Glen<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>

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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chuck
Hochhalter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Anyone
notice how much airpace 3 rolls takes in FAI... I don&#8217;t think they lower
class has the box management skills to fit 3 rolls into the box, let alone be
ready to center them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Chuck</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net" title="ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Friday, May 08,
2009 9:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Re comments below-<br>
I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two rolls, and
not three, is-<br>
Figuring two rolls are challenge and training enough for most intermediate
pilots -<br>
And two is enough for judging- &nbsp; Particularly, if you see two going badly,
not many of us<br>
want to see a third.<br>
<br>
Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year because of
beating 4 other pilots -<br>
That is already fixed.&nbsp; The 2009 rule&nbsp; &quot;..flier must move out of
Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second or subsequent
year of participation if he/she places first or second and above at least 4
other fliers...&quot;<br>
<br>
Ron Lockhart<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: &quot;Ron Hansen&quot; &lt;rcpilot@wowway.com&gt;<br>
To: &quot;General pattern discussion&quot;
&lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;<br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I&#8217;ve been flying intermediate for about 3 years going on 4.
&nbsp;The two rolls are still kicking my you know what.&nbsp; I can do one slow
roll and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls. &nbsp;I&#8217;m certain
that the average advance pilot would really have trouble with 3 rolls.&nbsp; I
see a lot of intermediate, advanced and sometimes even masters pilots almost
loose airplanes on the horizontal rolling maneuvers.&nbsp; They shouldn&#8217;t
be underestimated.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I agree with Mark, lets make advancement at all levels a
guideline.&nbsp; I had to move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first
year in sportsman because I beat 4 other pilots.&nbsp; I was flying a Kaos and
the other pilots were all flying their 1<sup>st</sup> contests with
trainers.&nbsp; They had no chance.&nbsp; In the end I&#8217;m glade I moved up
but at the time it made me real nervous.&nbsp; I was so determined to fly
pattern that I decided to give it the old college try in intermediate.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I think Advance could use a few more maneuvers that exit
inverted.&nbsp; Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty good.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Ron </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard
Lewis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>There is a
provision in the current rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of
the competition regulations....<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>Richard<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style='margin-left:.5in'>

<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>

<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>

</span></div>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'> &quot;jeffghughes@comcast.net&quot; &lt;jeffghughes@comcast.net&gt;<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Bob,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>I understand completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter
got sick and I've been to one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and
my confidence along with it. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Jeff</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: &quot;Mark Atwood&quot; &lt;atwoodm@paragon-inc.com&gt;<br>
To: &quot;General pattern discussion&quot;
&lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;<br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I know you&#8217;re joking
some Bob, but I think you&#8217;re actually a great example of someone that was
able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through the system, but then when you
got to Masters&#8230;a time when you really need to practice even more to be
competitive, your job suddenly changed,&nbsp; home life became more complex,
and you&#8217;re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a year outside of
contests.&nbsp;&nbsp; Your experience and skill would allow you to be
competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more fun
being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without hardly
even knowing the pattern.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You&#8217;re the perfect
candidate for someone that should be able to choose where they fly (which
pattern) and have the most enjoyment.&nbsp; </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Kane<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>Hey, I
resemble that remark . . . . . . .<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>Bob Kane<br>
getterflash@yahoo.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div style='margin-left:.5in'>

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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>

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</span></div>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'> &quot;jeffghughes@comcast.net&quot; &lt;jeffghughes@comcast.net&gt;<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Don Ramsey &lt;don.ramsey@suddenlink.net&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>This is all pretty interesting. From my perspective, I didn't
&nbsp;really care who beat me when I was in intermediate or advanced. I just
knew that I was seeing the skill level necessary to win. While it's nice to win
a trophy in the lower classes, I understood I wasn't competing against the best
pilots anyway.&nbsp; From what I've seen there is a huge variation of
talent&nbsp;within a class anyway.&nbsp;I've seen Masters pilots fly that
wouldn't win in advanced if they bumped back down (maybe not even in
intermediate). People move up for all&nbsp;kinds of reasons unrelated to skill
level. &nbsp;It's also interesting that we talk about using each class to
improve our flying until we get to Masters, then it appears nobody wants to
improve to FAI. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span><span
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_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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