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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yeah I know but this falls under the "If I
have to explain, you wouldn't understand" category. VBG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jtkeiser@comcast.net href="mailto:jtkeiser@comcast.net">Jack
Keiser</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:47
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As I recall, it was three rolls in "three to
five"" seconds. And maybe only 100 mph.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jack</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John
Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:25
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Because those "crappy" planes flew at 150 miles
an hour and had a roll rate of 3 rolls per second! Now everyone wants to fly
slow... LOL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jtkeiser@comcast.net href="mailto:jtkeiser@comcast.net">Jack
Keiser</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 08, 2009 11:15
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I wonder why two horizontal rolls is a
"challenge" for today's Intermediate pilots when three horizontal rolls
were required of Sportsman pilots with those crappy planes 30 years
ago?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jack</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ronlock@comcast.net
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 08, 2009 8:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Re
comments below-<BR>I believe part of reason the current Intermediate
sequence has two rolls, and not three, is-<BR>Figuring two rolls are
challenge and training enough for most intermediate pilots -<BR>And two
is enough for judging- Particularly, if you see two going badly,
not many of us<BR>want to see a third.<BR><BR>Also below - having to
move out of Sportsman after first year because of beating 4 other pilots
-<BR>That is already fixed. The 2009 rule "..flier must move
out of Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second
or subsequent year of participation if he/she places first or second and
above at least 4 other fliers..."<BR><BR>Ron Lockhart<BR><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "Ron Hansen"
<rcpilot@wowway.com><BR>To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009
10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System<BR><BR><!--[if !mso]>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve been
flying intermediate for about 3 years going on 4. <SPAN> </SPAN>The
two rolls are still kicking my you know what.<SPAN> </SPAN>I can
do one slow roll and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls.
<SPAN> </SPAN>I’m certain that the average advance pilot would
really have trouble with 3 rolls.<SPAN> </SPAN>I see a lot of
intermediate, advanced and sometimes even <SPAN
class=GramE>masters</SPAN> pilots almost loose airplanes on the
horizontal rolling maneuvers.<SPAN> </SPAN>They shouldn’t be
underestimated.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I agree with
Mark, lets make advancement at all levels a guideline.<SPAN>
</SPAN>I had to move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first
year in sportsman because I beat 4 other pilots.<SPAN> </SPAN>I
was flying a <SPAN class=SpellE>Kaos</SPAN> and the other pilots were
all flying their 1<SUP>st</SUP> contests with trainers.<SPAN>
</SPAN>They had no chance.<SPAN> </SPAN>In the end I’m glade I
moved up but at the time it made me real nervous.<SPAN> </SPAN>I
was so determined to fly pattern that I decided to give it the old
college try in intermediate.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think Advance
could use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty
good.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ron
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Richard
Lewis<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May
08, 2009 4:38 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
General pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">There is a
provision in the current rule set to accomodate these situations, see
8.1.2 of the competition regulations....</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Richard</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
"jeffghughes@comcast.net" <jeffghughes@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bob,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I understand
completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've
been to one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my
confidence along with it. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeff</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mark Atwood"
<atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><BR>To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009
2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri
color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">I
know you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great example
of someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through the
system, but then when you got to Masters…a time when you really need to
practice even more to be competitive, your job suddenly changed,
home life became more complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice
flights a year outside of contests. Your experience and
skill would allow you to be competitive in Advanced, without dominating
and likely have a lot more fun being a spoiler to that crowd, rather
than trying to fly masters without hardly even knowing the
pattern.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri
color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">You’re
the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where
they fly (which pattern) and have the most enjoyment.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Kane<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hey, I resemble that remark . . .
. . . .</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Bob
Kane<BR>getterflash@yahoo.com</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
"jeffghughes@comcast.net" <jeffghughes@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Don Ramsey
<don.ramsey@suddenlink.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is all
pretty interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care who
beat me when I was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was
seeing the skill level necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy
in the lower classes, I understood I wasn't competing against the best
pilots anyway. From what I've seen there is a huge variation of
talent within a class anyway. I've seen Masters pilots fly
that wouldn't win in advanced if they bumped back down (maybe not even
in intermediate). People move up for all kinds of reasons unrelated
to skill level. It's also interesting that we talk about using
each class to improve our flying until we get to Masters, then it
appears nobody wants to improve to FAI. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No virus found
in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com/" target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>Version:
8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2103 - Release Date: 05/07/09
18:05:00</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>_______________________________________________
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>__________ Information from ESET NOD32
Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4063 (20090508)
__________<BR><BR>The message was checked by ESET NOD32
Antivirus.<BR><BR><A href="http://www.eset.com"
target=_blank>http://www.eset.com</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________
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