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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes you are 100% correct but I bet you
didn't see it that way when you were flying in Intermediate.
VBG So I gess we should put 3 rolls and 3 outside loops in Intermediate. I
don't care - I don't fly that class anymore. :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jonlowe@aol.com href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:27
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Completely different
animal. They have to stop rotation to reverse direction. Eats up a
LOT more space.</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: John Pavlick <<A
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</A>><BR>To: General
pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Sat, 9 May 2009 9:10 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement
System<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yup that's what I tried to point out a while
ago. But nobody ever listens to me anyway...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cahochhalter@yahoo.com href="mailto:cahochhalter@yahoo.com">Chuck
Hochhalter</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Sent:</B>
Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:15 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Anyone notice how much airpace 3 rolls takes in
FAI... I don’t think they lower class has the box management skills to fit 3
rolls into the box, let alone be ready to center them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Chuck</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: norm al; -x-system-font: none">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245); -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=ronlock@comcast.net
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 08, 2009 9:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement
System</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Re
comments below-<BR>I believe part of reason the current Intermediate
sequence has two rolls, and not three, is-<BR>Figuring two rolls are
challenge and training enough for most intermediate pilots -<BR>And two is
enough for judging- Particularly, if you see two going badly, not
many of us<BR>want to see a third.<BR><BR>Also below - having to move out of
Sportsman after first year because of beating 4 other pilots -<BR>That is
already fixed. The 2009 rule "..flier must move out of Sportsman
class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second or subsequent year of
participation if he/she places first or second and above at least 4 other
fliers..."<BR><BR>Ron Lockhart<BR><BR>----- Original Message ---- -<BR>From:
"Ron Hansen" <<A
href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</A>><BR>To: "General
pattern discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve been flying
intermediate for about 3 years going on 4. <SPAN> </SPAN>The two rolls
are still kicking my you know what.<SPAN> </SPAN>I can do one slow
roll and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls. <SPAN> </SPAN>I’m
certain that the average advance pilot would really have trouble with 3
rolls.<SPAN> </SPAN>I see a lot of intermediate, advanced and
sometimes even <SPAN class=GramE>masters</SPAN> pilots almost loose
airplanes on the horizontal rolling maneuvers.<SPAN> </SPAN>They
shouldn’t be underestimated.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I agree with Mark,
lets make advancement at all levels a guideline.<SPAN> </SPAN>I had to
move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first year in sportsman
because I beat 4 other pilots.<SPAN> </SPAN>I was flying a <SPAN
class=SpellE>Kaos</SPAN> and the other pilots were all flying their
1<SUP>st</SUP> contests with trainers.<SPAN> </SPAN>They had no
chance.<SPAN> </SPAN>In the end I’m glade I m oved up but at the time
it made me real nervous.<SPAN> </SPAN>I was so determined to fly
pattern that I decided to give it the old college try in
intermediate.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think Advance
could use a few more maneuvers that exit inverted.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty
good.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ron
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of=2 0</SPAN></B>Richard
Lewis<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 08,
2009 4:38 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General
pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">There is a provision in the current
rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of the competition
regulations....</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Richard</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; 20margin-right: 0in"><B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> "<A
href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</A>" <<A
href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bob,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I understand
completely, I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've been
to one contest in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my confidence along
with it. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeff</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =2 0Arial"><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: "Mark Atwood" <<A
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</A>><BR>To:
"General pattern discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri
color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">I know
you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great example of
someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through the
system, but then when you got to Masters…a time when you really need to
practice even more to be competitive, your job suddenly changed, home
life became more complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a year
outside of contests. Your experience and skill would allow you
to be competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more
fun being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without
hardly even knowing the pattern.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </DI v>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri
color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">You’re
the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where they
fly (which pattern) and have the most enjoyment. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob
Kane<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 08,
2009 2:40 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General
pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion]20Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hey, I
resemble that remark . . . . . . .</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Bob
Kane<BR><A
href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=" center" width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> "<A
href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</A>" <<A
href="mailto:jeffghughes@comcast.net">jeffghughes@comcast.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Don Ramsey <<A
href="mailto:don.ramsey@suddenlink.net">don.ramsey@suddenlink.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is all pretty
interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care who beat me
when I was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was seeing the
skill level necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy in the lower
classes, I understood I wasn't competing against the best pilots
anyway. From =0 A what I've seen there is a huge variation of
talent within a class anyway. I've seen Masters pilots fly that
wouldn't win in advanced if they bumped back down (maybe not even in
intermediate). People move up for all kinds of reasons unrelated to
skill level. It's also interesting that we talk about using each class
to improve our flying until we get to Masters, then it appears nobody wants
to improve to FAI. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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