<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Re comments below-<br>I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two rolls, and not three, is-<br>Figuring two rolls are challenge and training enough for most intermediate pilots -<br>And two is enough for judging- Particularly, if you see two going badly, not many of us<br>want to see a third.<br><br>Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year because of beating 4 other pilots -<br>That is already fixed. The 2009 rule "..flier must move out of Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second or subsequent year of participation if he/she places first or second and above at least 4 other fliers..."<br><br>Ron Lockhart<br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "Ron Hansen" <rcpilot@wowway.com><br>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<br><br>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
v\:* {}
o\:* {}
w\:* {}
_filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
_filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:1627421319 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.emailstyle18
{mso-style-name:emailstyle18;
font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;}
p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault
{mso-style-name:msochpdefault;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.SpellE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-spl-e:yes;}
span.GramE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-gram-e:yes;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I’ve been flying intermediate for
about 3 years going on 4. <span style=""> </span>The two
rolls are still kicking my you know what.<span style="">
</span>I can do one slow roll and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive rolls. <span style=""> </span>I’m certain that the average
advance pilot would really have trouble with 3 rolls.<span style=""> </span>I see a lot of intermediate, advanced
and sometimes even <span class="GramE">masters</span> pilots almost loose
airplanes on the horizontal rolling maneuvers.<span style=""> </span>They shouldn’t be underestimated.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I agree with Mark, lets make advancement
at all levels a guideline.<span style=""> </span>I had to
move up from sportsman to intermediate after my first year in sportsman because
I beat 4 other pilots.<span style=""> </span>I was flying
a <span class="SpellE">Kaos</span> and the other pilots were all flying their 1<sup>st</sup>
contests with trainers.<span style=""> </span>They had no
chance.<span style=""> </span>In the end I’m glade
I moved up but at the time it made me real nervous.<span style=""> </span>I was so determined to fly pattern that
I decided to give it the old college try in intermediate.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I think Advance could use a few more
maneuvers that exit inverted.<span style="">
</span>Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are pretty good.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Ron </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Richard Lewis<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">There is a provision in the current rule set to
accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of the competition regulations....</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Richard</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-align: center;" align="center"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
"jeffghughes@comcast.net" <jeffghughes@comcast.net><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Bob,</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">I understand completely,
I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've been to one contest
in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my confidence along with it. </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Jeff</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Mark Atwood" <atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
know you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great
example of someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through
the system, but then when you got to Masters…a time when you really need
to practice even more to be competitive, your job suddenly changed, home
life became more complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a
year outside of contests. Your experience and skill would allow you
to be competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more
fun being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without
hardly even knowing the pattern.</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You’re
the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where they fly (which
pattern) and have the most enjoyment. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: black; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: black;">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Kane<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Hey, I
resemble that remark . . . . . . .</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Bob Kane<br>
getterflash@yahoo.com</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-align: center;" align="center"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: black;">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: black; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: black;"> "jeffghughes@comcast.net"
<jeffghughes@comcast.net><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Don Ramsey <don.ramsey@suddenlink.net><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">This is all pretty
interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care who beat me when I
was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was seeing the skill level
necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy in the lower classes, I
understood I wasn't competing against the best pilots anyway. From what
I've seen there is a huge variation of talent within a class anyway. I've
seen Masters pilots fly that wouldn't win in advanced if they bumped back down
(maybe not even in intermediate). People move up for all kinds of reasons
unrelated to skill level. It's also interesting that we talk about using
each class to improve our flying until we get to Masters, then it appears
nobody wants to improve to FAI. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">No virus found in this
incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2103 - Release Date: 05/07/09
18:05:00</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4063 (20090508) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</div></body></html>