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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Chuck,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>In the early nineties when I got started
in pattern the Sportsman sequence now known as Intermediate had three rolls.
I flew 2cycle then (Saphire, LA-1) and had no problem fitting the maneuver in
the box as well as centering. I believe this built many early skill sets that
have helped me in the long run over the years.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I’m of the opinion pattern sequences
should present challenges to ones current skill set. Without a challenge
why do pattern at all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Glen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Chuck Hochhalter<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:15
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>Anyone notice how much airpace 3 rolls takes in FAI... I
don’t think they lower class has the box management skills to fit 3 rolls
into the box, let alone be ready to center them.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>Chuck</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net" title="ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Friday,
May 08, 2009 9:25 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Re
comments below-<br>
I believe part of reason the current Intermediate sequence has two rolls, and
not three, is-<br>
Figuring two rolls are challenge and training enough for most intermediate
pilots -<br>
And two is enough for judging- Particularly, if you see two going badly,
not many of us<br>
want to see a third.<br>
<br>
Also below - having to move out of Sportsman after first year because of
beating 4 other pilots -<br>
That is already fixed. The 2009 rule "..flier must move out of
Sportsman class at the end of he calendar year of his/her second or subsequent
year of participation if he/she places first or second and above at least 4
other fliers..."<br>
<br>
Ron Lockhart<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Ron Hansen" <rcpilot@wowway.com><br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 10:03:36 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’ve been flying intermediate for
about 3 years going on 4. The two rolls are still kicking my you know
what. I can do one slow roll and one 4 pt roll but not two consecutive
rolls. I’m certain that the average advance pilot would really have
trouble with 3 rolls. I see a lot of intermediate, advanced and sometimes
even masters pilots almost loose airplanes on the horizontal rolling
maneuvers. They shouldn’t be underestimated.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree with Mark, lets make advancement
at all levels a guideline. I had to move up from sportsman to
intermediate after my first year in sportsman because I beat 4 other
pilots. I was flying a Kaos and the other pilots were all flying their 1<sup>st</sup>
contests with trainers. They had no chance. In the end I’m
glade I moved up but at the time it made me real nervous. I was so
determined to fly pattern that I decided to give it the old college try in
intermediate.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think Advance could use a few more
maneuvers that exit inverted. Otherwise, I believe all the sequences are
pretty good.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ron </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Richard Lewis<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 08, 2009 4:38 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>There is a
provision in the current rule set to accomodate these situations, see 8.1.2 of
the competition regulations....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Richard<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> "jeffghughes@comcast.net"
<jeffghughes@comcast.net><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 8, 2009 3:30:24
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Bob,</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I understand completely,
I moved up to advanced, then my daughter got sick and I've been to one contest
in 4 years. My flying has regressed, and my confidence along with it. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Jeff</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Mark Atwood" <atwoodm@paragon-inc.com><br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 2:52:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I
know you’re joking some Bob, but I think you’re actually a great
example of someone that was able to fly a lot, and progressed nicely through
the system, but then when you got to Masters…a time when you really need
to practice even more to be competitive, your job suddenly changed, home
life became more complex, and you’re lucky to fly 10 practice flights a
year outside of contests. Your experience and skill would allow you
to be competitive in Advanced, without dominating and likely have a lot more
fun being a spoiler to that crowd, rather than trying to fly masters without
hardly even knowing the pattern.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>You’re
the perfect candidate for someone that should be able to choose where they fly
(which pattern) and have the most enjoyment. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Kane<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 08, 2009 2:40 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Hey, I
resemble that remark . . . . . . .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Bob Kane<br>
getterflash@yahoo.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> "jeffghughes@comcast.net"
<jeffghughes@comcast.net><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Don Ramsey
<don.ramsey@suddenlink.net><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 8, 2009 12:17:58
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>This is all pretty
interesting. From my perspective, I didn't really care who beat me when I
was in intermediate or advanced. I just knew that I was seeing the skill level
necessary to win. While it's nice to win a trophy in the lower classes, I
understood I wasn't competing against the best pilots anyway. From what
I've seen there is a huge variation of talent within a class
anyway. I've seen Masters pilots fly that wouldn't win in advanced if they
bumped back down (maybe not even in intermediate). People move up for
all kinds of reasons unrelated to skill level. It's also interesting
that we talk about using each class to improve our flying until we get to
Masters, then it appears nobody wants to improve to FAI. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>No virus found in this
incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2103 - Release Date: 05/07/09
18:05:00</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4063 (20090508) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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