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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maybe Sportsman should be limited to 1.5M
and a .60 engine?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p><b><i><font size=4 color=navy face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:
italic'>Jay </span></font></i></b><b><i><font size=4 color=navy
face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Marshall</span></font></i></b><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Archie Stafford<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>May 07, 2009</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>8:43 PM</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>jpavlick@idseng.com</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>; '</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>General
pattern discussion</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I
think one thing we need to really get back to basics on is designing the
schedules based around the skills necessary to be able to move on to the next
sequence. I think we have picked a bunch of maneuvers, but are missing
out on what skills are needed. The current sportsman sequence is way too
long and requires a lot more power than a beginner sequence should. There
was a time when you could fly a .40 sport plane and be competitive, but those
days are gone. What is gained by the vertical upline on center
maneuver? You have to have a plane with a reasonable thrust to weight
ratio as the next maneuver is a split s. There are 2 half reverse Cuban
eights. You could conceivably get rid of the last 5 maneuvers and not be
missing anything. You would also allow a true .40 size first low wing
plane a chance at being competitive. I understand the argument that
theoretically those planes are already competitive, but in reality they
aren’t. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>The
biggest thing that people in sportsman need is the basic understanding of a
contest and the ability to learn to fly a straight line and maintain
altitude. Then as you progress you can add other maneuvers. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Two
maneuvers I think need to be put back into intermediate are the 3 horizontal
rolls…3, not 2. With 3 you have to learn to fly through them. Also,
the double stall turn was a great maneuver for that sequence. Straight
inverted flight is another important element that gets missed, even with the
inverted exit. As you progress into Advanced maybe introduce snaps
and a spin, with a couple more inverted exits to actually prepare someone for
Masters. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I
think if the sequences get viewed as building blocks, then the maneuvers needed
will take care of themselves. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Just
my .02,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Arch</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Pavlick<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:35
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Advancement System</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=780
style='width:6.5in;margin-left:.5in'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Bill,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> What district are you in? Maybe Ziggy
and I will take a road trip this summer. That could make things
interesting for you guys. I'm staying in Advanced as long as I can or at
least until I lose my day job. :)</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>John Pavlick<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Thu, 5/7/09, Bill Glaze <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><billglaze@bellsouth.net></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From: Bill Glaze
<billglaze@bellsouth.net><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 7:36 PM</span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1772817569>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Joe:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Advanced last weekend in Winston = 0
contestants. A couple of weeks ago in Green Sea: Advanced = 1
contestant. I don't believe that we've had more than 4 contestants in
Advanced in a single contest for 2 years--maybe more. I haven't thought
much about just why that might be, but right now, it's a very unpopular
class. I concur that most of the dropouts seem to be either from the
Advanced class, or, from those who are forced into the Advanced class.
No matter how/why they're forced to move up, it's just the way it is
right now.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Bill Glaze</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com" target="_blank" title="jlachow@hotmail.com">Joe
Lachowski</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Discussion List</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday, May
07, 2009 11:32 AM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'm for getting rid of advancement in the Advanced
class for one. This is the class a number flyers who stick
around seem to hit their skill level wall and disappear. It also
appears to be the smallest class attended at local contests these days.
At least in D1 it is.<br>
<br>
I'd also like to see the option of being able to move back after one year in
the next higher class. This would be a allowed one time only.<br>
<br>
To make frequent sequence change doable, instead of having to come up
with new ones every 4 years or so, maybe we should just come up with
a good set of say 4 for each class. You can rotate
through them every 2 years and start from the first one all over again
after they've cycled through. This could easily be done for Intermediate
and Advanced. Probably even Masters. After about 8 years the pool of flyers
for the most part will have changed in each class anyway. Establishing
these sequences will probably take a well thought process of about two years
by some dedicated people willing to take it on. You could also just change a
handful of maneuvers in these sequences after the 8 year cycle to keep things
a little fresh for those that are still flying a
particular class after the 8 year cycle. This is a lot of work up front
but in teh long run it is easier. <br>
<br>
As far as Sportsman goes, you just need one good sequence that
teaches the basic skills to get you to Intermediate. The one we have now is
pretty close if not good enough.<br>
<br>
Just some ideas.<br>
</span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>From: anthonyr105@hotmail.com<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 10:48:08 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<br>
<br>
Good idea Earl. I think peer pressure alone will suffice but
if we want an organize system this has merit. <br>
Do we realize if we allow the other classes to become destinations then
the sequences should change more frequently. <br>
<br>
Anthony<br>
</span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From:
ejhaury@comcast.net<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:24:18 -0500<br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>In the discussion regarding the Masters sequence / length
a few competitors mentioned that increasing the difficulty would cause them
to stop competing. Folks, this needs to be addressed! We can't tolerate a
system where folks are forced to a level where they can't enjoy pattern
and/or chose to quit. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>There are generally two views of the current system. One
is that it is cast in stone and needed to force the "trophy
hound" to move to the proper class. The other is that peer pressure
alone will result in proper classification. I think that there's a third
possibility, some folks prematurely move to a higher class for the
"prestige" of that class. There's likely reality / unreality
to each view which supports that some process is needed. While there
have been some changes to smooth the advancement process, nothing has
changed for a person who finds themselves in a class that exceeds their
skills. I know - there's a process to petition for dropping to a lower class,
but it's intended for hardship cases rather than being uncompetitive.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>OK - going back to the first paragraph - how might we fix
this? My suggestion is to change the rules so that folks who gather points in
the lower percentile of a class for X number of events (or rounds, or time
span?) have the option to stay where they are, or move back a class. The current
advancement rules would be applied to folks in the upper percentile. It seems
that this would provide an option for the casual competitor to seek a comfort
level and retain a reasonable advancement process for the serious competitor.
Of course there are administrative issues, probably best to simply use data
within each district, as most already track points for district
championships. A district based data set would also best weight performance
within one's local peer group.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Just my thoughts - how about the group discussing this
some.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Earl</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
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</span></font></div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></p>
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</blockquote>
<pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font></pre></div>
</blockquote>
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