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Mark,<BR>
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We could definitely go back one cycle on Advanced and Intermediate and tweak them. I'm not so sure about two cyces back. Only because they haven't been changed so frequently and things have changed a bit. Masters is open game I think and all the Masters pilots who have been around long enough know what the problems were with some of the previous sequences that could be fixed. Right Verne<g><BR> <BR>
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From: atwoodm@paragon-inc.com<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:58:45 -0400<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<BR><BR>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Could we simply look to some of the previous patterns then and recycle those? Or recycle them with minor changes? That would be an easy starting point, and with a single maneuver change or two, they could feel very current.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Joe Lachowski<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 07, 2009 1:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Discussion List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">I don't think it does fall prey to the changing style of flying in the classes below Masters as long a you stick to the guidelines and the catalog of manuevers dedicated to each of the classes below Masters. I don't think our style of flying is really going to change much more than it already is. Other than Biplanes, what else is there to change things. The comment I made about changing a few maneuvers in one of the sequences after the 8 year cycle would cover any of this I think. Without making changes in the boundaries for our planes, I think we have reached a point where things are beginning to slow down. The make up of the sequences in the classes below Masters have really not changed much for some time. The level of difficulty and maneuvers utilized are pretty much the same. </SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">From: atwoodm@paragon-inc.com<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 11:40:26 -0400<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Part of me likes the rotating sequence idea, but it falls pray to the ever changing “style” of our patterns.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">How about instead of changing an entire sequence, we look to change a segment of the sequence every 2 years? Throw 6 manuevers out, and add 6 different ones. It would allow for some change, some tweaking of the difficulty, would allow new style maneuvers to be put in, without completely redesigning and testing new sequences all the time.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">It would also reduce the sudden learning curve. You would have some of it memorized and “learned” going in.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">And it could be done for every class, though I think Masters probably would like a complete new sequence more often.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">As for advancement, I really think that EVERY class should be voluntary.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I’d like to hear someone name a trophy hound. I’m pretty sure once they did…it would end right there. Peer pressure and good natured ribbing is part of the game. I hammer on Archie to move up to FAI at almost every contest! He has goals he wants to achieve and that’s great. When someone is REALLY tired of him taking home 1<SUP>st</SUP> place in a local contest…all they have to do is….beat him.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Joe Lachowski<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:32 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Discussion List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">I'm for getting rid of advancement in the Advanced class for one. This is the class a number flyers who stick around seem to hit their skill level wall and disappear. It also appears to be the smallest class attended at local contests these days. At least in D1 it is.<BR> <BR>I'd also like to see the option of being able to move back after one year in the next higher class. This would be a allowed one time only.<BR> <BR> To make frequent sequence change doable, instead of having to come up with new ones every 4 years or so, maybe we should just come up with a good set of say 4 for each class. You can rotate through them every 2 years and start from the first one all over again after they've cycled through. This could easily be done for Intermediate and Advanced. Probably even Masters. After about 8 years the pool of flyers for the most part will have changed in each class anyway. Establishing these sequences will probably take a well thought process of about two years by some dedicated people willing to take it on. You could also just change a handful of maneuvers in these sequences after the 8 year cycle to keep things a little fresh for those that are still flying a particular class after the 8 year cycle. This is a lot of work up front but in teh long run it is easier. <BR> <BR> As far as Sportsman goes, you just need one good sequence that teaches the basic skills to get you to Intermediate. The one we have now is pretty close if not good enough.<BR> <BR>Just some ideas.<BR> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">From: anthonyr105@hotmail.com<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 10:48:08 -0400<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System<BR><BR>Good idea Earl. I think peer pressure alone will suffice but if we want an organize system this has merit. <BR> Do we realize if we allow the other classes to become destinations then the sequences should change more frequently. <BR> <BR>Anthony<BR> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">From: ejhaury@comcast.net<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:24:18 -0500<BR>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Advancement System</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">In the discussion regarding the Masters sequence / length a few competitors mentioned that increasing the difficulty would cause them to stop competing. Folks, this needs to be addressed! We can't tolerate a system where folks are forced to a level where they can't enjoy pattern and/or chose to quit. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">There are generally two views of the current system. One is that it is cast in stone and needed to force the "trophy hound" to move to the proper class. The other is that peer pressure alone will result in proper classification. I think that there's a third possibility, some folks prematurely move to a higher class for the "prestige" of that class. There's likely reality / unreality to each view which supports that some process is needed. While there have been some changes to smooth the advancement process, nothing has changed for a person who finds themselves in a class that exceeds their skills. I know - there's a process to petition for dropping to a lower class, but it's intended for hardship cases rather than being uncompetitive.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">OK - going back to the first paragraph - how might we fix this? My suggestion is to change the rules so that folks who gather points in the lower percentile of a class for X number of events (or rounds, or time span?) have the option to stay where they are, or move back a class. The current advancement rules would be applied to folks in the upper percentile. It seems that this would provide an option for the casual competitor to seek a comfort level and retain a reasonable advancement process for the serious competitor. Of course there are administrative issues, probably best to simply use data within each district, as most already track points for district championships. A district based data set would also best weight performance within one's local peer group.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Just my thoughts - how about the group discussing this some.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Earl</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV>
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