<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">No FAI hand me downs. Just take out three maneuvers, that's more time for other things.<div><br></div><div> <br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 20px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Robert Satalino</div><div><a href="mailto:rcairbob1@comcast.net">rcairbob1@comcast.net</a></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br><div><div>On May 5, 2009, at 11:23 AM, mike mueller wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>Mark we have plans for splitting Masters into 2 groups around here. Anything else is a disaster. Mike<br><br><br>--- On Tue, 5/5/09, Atwood, Mark <<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">From: Atwood, Mark <<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters Sequence<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: "General pattern discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:mups1953@yahoo.com">mups1953@yahoo.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:mups1953@yahoo.com">mups1953@yahoo.com</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:57 AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hear Hear!!<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I love flying long sequences...hate judging them. There<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">needs to be a balance. Not just for the sake of the judges,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">but also to accommodate the length of the contest. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">At a big D4/D5 contest we'll usually have 5-6 FAI<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pilots and 15 or 16 masters pilots. Currently the masters<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pattern is a MINIMUM of 10 minutes per pilot (maybe not in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the air, but you have to really have people on their toes to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">even get 6 flights in an hour). With 16 masters pilots,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that's 2 hours and 40 minutes of flying per round if<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">you're humpin'. Six rounds means 16 hours of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">flying for JUST masters guys. Assuming you have 2 lines,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that means one of those lines is dedicated to Masters for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the entire contest AND assume you have 16 hours to fly.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We never have 16 hours to fly. Rarely can we get people to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stay until 6pm on Sunday (9am - 6pm with a lunch break both<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">days) and most fields have the sun in the box either in the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">morning or afternoon which shortens the flying day even<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">more.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Now add to those woes that you only have 5-6 FAI guys<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">judging. You need 32 man hours of judging, so even if you<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mix in a group of Advanced flyers it's a loooong time in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the chair.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Bottom line, regardless of whether it's P-09 (probably<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not a good choice at this point) or a home brewed<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pattern...it needs to follow the FAI trend of getting a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">little shorter. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My .02<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Of Archie Stafford<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:38 AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:mups1953@yahoo.com">mups1953@yahoo.com</a>; 'General pattern<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">discussion'<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sequence<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Verne,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This started when I suggested to the sequence committee<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that we need to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">shorten the masters pattern. Flying it is fine, but I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">think we need to take<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">into account the guys who have to sit and judge it. I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">heard several guys in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">FAI judging this weekend about how long a sequence it is. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Which wouldn't be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">near as bad except for the fact Masters is usually the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">largest class at most<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">contests. I think we need to consider the length of time<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in the judges<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">chair for those that have to judge it as well.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Arch<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Of mike mueller<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:31 AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: General pattern discussion<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sequence<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> The current pattern puts E. guys at a bit of a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">disadvantage. It pushes my<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">setup a little further than I prefer. It is a great pattern<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and I compliment<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the designers for having a nice flow. Mike<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--- On Tue, 5/5/09, <a href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">verne@twmi.rr.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">verne@twmi.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">verne@twmi.rr.com</a> <<a href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">verne@twmi.rr.com</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Length of 2011 Masters<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sequence<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: "General pattern discussion"<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 10:24 AM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If it sounded as though I were complaining that the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">current<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Masters schedule takes too long, I wasn't. Just<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">commenting that it takes a lot longer than the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">previous one.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">For me, eight minutes from takeoff to landing approach<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(my<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">timer is started on takeoff and is almost always<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">beeping<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">during my landing). I fly at what I would call a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">medium<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">speed most of the time. <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'm also against flying the FAI-P schedule.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I'd<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">rather fly a home-grown variant that we create<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ourselves.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Verne Koester<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">---- Stuart Chale <<a href="mailto:schale@optonline.net">schale@optonline.net</a>> wrote: <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">No virus found in this incoming message.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a> <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.12.17/2095 - Release<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Date: 05/04/09 06:00:00<br></blockquote><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>