<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{font-family:"Courier New";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If I may step in here for a moment and
elaborate on one of Don’s points.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m not sure if Don was referring to
me, however I lost my first Partner a little over a year ago, and I think the
flat, black clip was part of the cause.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyhow, I was test flying a new to me
Excellence IAM about a month ago, and the way that I secured the battery to the
regulator was with a piece of vinyl electrical tape, that went from lead to
lead, meaning it covered a bit of the battery portion of the lead, the
connectors, and a little bit of the regulator portion of the lead. Anyway, I
was out horsing the airplane around a bit, when I noticed it started to respond
funny. The CG seemed to be way off and the elevator wasn’t nearly as
effective.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>After getting the airplane down, I
realized why. I had the battery mounted under the rudder servo tray with a
piece of Velcro, however that Velcro let the battery slip out, as I didn’t
account for the extra loads that was going to be put on the airplane doing 3D
maneuvers. The battery had fallen out, and entangled itself and the lead in the
pull-pull cables for the elevator. Not once did I have a problem with the
battery unplugging. Also, some years ago, a buddy of mine was flying a Desire (I
think) and the battery came loose from its mounting location, and somehow the
canopy departed the airplane as well. He was using electrical tape to secure
his battery to the switch, and even though it was outside beating on the
airframe in the breeze until he could get the airplane down, it held fast with
no issues.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Normally I use heat shrink to secure
leads, but I setup the batteries in all of my airplanes to be removable for
charging, and needed a simple, yet effective solution. This is what I ended up
using. The funny thing is, on the Partner that went in, I had the battery out
of the airplane about a week prior to losing it, and neglected to put the
electrical tape back on the lead.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ryan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>tocdon@netscape.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:21
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR
DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jon, Colin,<br>
<br>
I'll pass on something that may or may not be related. The NMP Li
Ion battery packs come with a "JR" type connector but it's a
slightly different design for the pins. There is play especially if you
use it inside a Futaba female connector. That is what my dad used on his
Smart Light Switch design. <br>
<br>
So any case, here's the story. I was flying and something did not feel
right. It felt like it went in to momentary hold, like during the
bottom of loop with 4 point roll (when the servos are loaded quite high).
I bring it down immediately and check the data logger which records
zero holds logged. However, I notice something out of
ordinary. The data logger shows no packet losses, no fades, zero
holds. That seems odd since it always has some minor packet losses during
a flight log. Everything seems normal. I take the switch out
and notice that when I wiggle all the wires its ok, but when I get to the
connector from the battery to the switch I see the smart light flash briefly
(showing it goes under 5.4 volts). Now with no servos on this is
odd. So what I find, after wiggling the connector (almost impossible to
reproduce but I do it finally) inside the yellow clip-on connector-holder thing
(the thing where the connectors clip inside and will not separate even when
pulled hard) the light goes out and stays out. The yellow clip thing
allows for some wiggle of the pins ba ck and forth while the connectors are
inside the clip. I find that its at best its at a high resistence,
and at worst it has intermittant connections. That explains why
the rx voltage was dropping during the loop with 4 point roll. I
subsituted a very small tightly tied tie-wrap in place of the yellow removable
clip and the problem was solved. So I thought I would pass this on. I
have heard of at least one plane lost from the black slip-on clips pulling
loose (the one where you slide one wire on one slot and the other wire in
the other slot to keep the connector from loosening). However , I have
never heard or experienced problems with the yellow clips.<br>
<br>
On the topic of trimming, here is another one of interest. I'm flying
tonight, the plane is trimmed perfectly, then half way through the flight
the trim below quarter throttle goes way out, like the wing is about to separate.
Real bad. Lots of up elevator and opposite aileron required to land.
Just get it on the ground. Felt like it lost an aileron,
elevator side, or both. I land, and after checking everything
carefully I notice a small section of trim covering on the top of the wing-
maybe 6 inches in length is loose. It did not tear off but in the frontal
exposure to wind would lift up like a miniature parachute. After
carefully taping that down I fly again. Same exact thing happens.
This Magic VF3 PHX really isn't happening. I land and guess what,
another, smaller section comes loose (just a little bit at the front edge of
the trim covering), but closer to the tip. I tape that down (boy I wish I
had an Iron with me.). Any case, I fly again and third time is the
charm Everything flies well. If such a small piece of covering
could effect the trim that much, it makes me wonder how much any drag
differential would cause the common pattern pilot headaches in trimming.
Note this- a small amount of drag differential on one wing tip has the same
effect as an out-of rudder trim, except it's non-linear with speed
(drag). Reminds me of the story that George Asteris had of a landing gear
retract that was dragging (hanging down on one side). Upright it would
hang down slightly causing drag, inverted it would go back into the wheel well
and the drag would go away.<br>
<br>
One final bit of wisdom. Plane rolls faster left than right. I go
to ATV to adjust control throws. It does not make sense. I have to
add a bunch of ATV in to get it close. I double check flight trim, guess
what, that is it. I do the clevis thing, get the trim beeps into
the center transmitter trim, and fly. Its perfect, and no ATV required at
all. Plane rolls so much better now. I'm now a 1 or two beep kind
of guy. <br>
<br>
Lots of food for thought. Well, I'm off to iron that covering back
down... tight.<br>
<br>
<br>
Don<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Ori ginal Message-----<br>
From: colin chariandy <cchariandy@yahoo.ca><br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 5:54 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_74948717-75ed-4611-99b9-6bb14a39b8fc">
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I am using a Hyde ARA70, centarl hobbies nose ring.
It seems loose enough.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The aileron servos are 9252s...I tested them on the
bench and could find nothing wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'm going to take the readings again with the
shorter arms.<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sat, 5/2/09, Jon Lowe <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Jon Lowe <<a href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Received: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 1:48 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>What mount are you using? Hyde? Budd? If
Hyde, which model? How tight is your nose ring? Too
tight can transfer a lot of vibration. Should be a loose fit on the
front of the engine.<br>
<br>
I've done some testing with a Hanger 9 current meter, and your engine off
draw is about right. I see around .9 to 1=2 0amp at idle, and 1.6 to 2 amps
at full throttle, using a Hyde mount with a YS 1.70. This, of course,
is on the ground. How airloads dampen the oscillations, I have no idea.<br>
<br>
Have you checked your aileron servos for dead spots around neutral? Are
your servo gears getting sloppy? They can start oscillating with the
engine running, and really kick up the amps. Put a servo tester on them
with a slow sweep and see if there is any hesitation in movement of the servo
thruout its travel. I've had a single aileron servo draw 1.5 amps by
itself if it started self oscillating due to a worn pot.<br>
<br>
I'd get rid of the long arms. Are you at about 130% or more ATV at high
rates? If not, do that first to get more travel.<br>
<br>
<br>
Jon Lowe<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: colin chariandy <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>><br>
To: <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>; <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>; Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 11:16 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I know most are probabl<br>
y fed up of this but I've got some info that may help others...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
After changing the regulator, battery and throttle servo I checked the regulator
load as follows:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Bench - 160mA.<br>
<br>
<br>
Feild, Engine off, windy day - 160-200mA<br>
<br>
<br>
Engine idle - 1.6A!!<br>
<br>
<br>
Mid power (roughest) - 2.0A!!!!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I tried to isolate the high draw by holding each control. When I held the two
ailerons it dropped to 680mA from 2.0A.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This year, in an attempt to speed up my snaps I changed to dubro super long
servo arms.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I'll need to improve the settings on the engine to smooth it out a bit and/or
go back to the shorter arms.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
With this set-up I would have to consume 300-400mAhrs per flight. I typically
fly 4-5 flights....that's too close to the limit for a 2000mAhr pack and
could easily have cost me the plane if I wasnt checking between flights. For
what ever the reason the rx shut down on the ground....I am very grateful<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Anyone using long arms with big 4Cs, ensure that you arent taking too much
out of your packs.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Now...any advice on how to smooth out the mid range on the 170? Top end is
amazing, idle is reliable...what should I change?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Colin.<br>
<br>
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Ed Alt <ed_alt@ho<br>
tmail.com> wr ote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: <a href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a><br>
Received: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 11:15 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Handle the problem as you see fit, I've done my best to give you advice
that has always served me well. Good luck!<br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 05:19:28 -0700<br>
From: <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>; <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>; <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Additionally, if the average for flight was 0.16A then we would only
consume 21mAhr in a typical 8min flight. Not the case, it' s more like
150mAhr.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Colin<br>
<br>
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, colin chariandy <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: colin chariandy <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>, "Ed Alt" <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Received: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 8:12 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Binding in the neutral position????<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Everything is free, I can't find any mechanical problems.<br>
<br>
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>>=2<br>
0wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: "colin chariandy" <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>>, "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>" <<A20href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>,
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a><br>
Received: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 12:28 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The idle current of 0.16A is about as high as your avwerage current for model
in flight should be. Something is binding.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
<br>
<br>
From: colin chariandy<br>
<br>
<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> ; <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a> ; Ed Alt<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:04 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Just tried the same using the regulator from my back-up (same except not
switched) and a new throttle servo.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Throttle servo amps increased to 0.35A max.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Although the package was labelled 6.0V the output is 5.7V and min output was
5.5V.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
After a minute of servo wagging it was hotter than the original.<br>
<br>
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, colin chariandy <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: colin chariandy <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchari%20%20andy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>, "Ed Alt" <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Received: Monday, April 27,<br>
2009, 9:22 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ok, although this is a 1 year old airplane with 150 flights I checked the
current draw after the regulator with all servos energized and the engine
off.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I used a "watts up" meter that logs peaks (but I'm not sure what
the sampling fequency is).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Idle current - 0.16A.<br>
<br>
<br>
Throttle servo movement max - 0.25A (doesnt seem like a problem but it's
a little more noisy than a new one).<br>
<br>
<br>
All other servos - 0.22-0.24 A max.<br>
<br>
<br>
Moving all servos together rapidly - 1.72A max.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regulator output min - 5.82V<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I did this (moved all the servos rapidly for 1 min) and checked the
little heat sink at the end of the regulator chip...quite warm, almost hot.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I may try this again with the engine running and compare the results.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=0 A<br>
<br>
Colin.<br>
<br>
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>, "colin
chariandy " <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>>, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a><br>
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 6:24 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This is easy to resolve. Nothing high tech is needed. One by one,
move your controls and carefully watch to see if it looks l<br>
ike the any of them are straining at the end of their maximum travel.
Check the throttle in particular. I have seen digital servo cases melt
from having the throw set up further than the linkage will allow. If
that's not it, disconnect the linkages at servo and work the control surface
by hand. If it does not move very freely, fix it. If you don't
find the problem there, work the servos around in a 10 minute mock flight on
the ground, except exaggerate the movements considerably since there will be
no air load and engine vibration to add to the loa d. Listen to each
servo. If it sounds like it's having a problem, remove it and check it
out on the bench. If there's nothing obviously wrong by the sound of
things, then feel the servo cases to see<br>
if any of them are getting warm, or even try smelling them for that
characteristic smell that hot electronics tend to have. If there is a
regulator that got so hot as to discolor it, and there is nothing at all
wrong with the linkages or control surfaces, then this ought to find the
culprit.<br>
<br>
Ed<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Cotton " <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davercotton@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">davercotton@hotmail.com</a>><br>
To: "colin chariandy " <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>>; <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>; <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:09 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
<br>
<br>
You will need a very good meter<br>
to read the current, because a fully loaded digital setup takes the current
in short spikes and most meters do not have a good enough frequency response.
I have tried using a very good quality HP meter with over 20k frequency
response and concluded it's not accurate, but it does give you a ball park
numb er and will indicate if you have a serious problem. I have monitored my
receiver voltage using a FDR data recorder and using two nimh batteries pack
in parallel see at least one volt drop spikes at the receiver when the servos
are heavily loaded. I run 2 20amp schottky diode connected packs
in parallel for safety. You can be sure that these spikes are
5amps or more. I placed a Castel reg in the circuit and it drops the
spikes to a few<br>
hundred millivolts<br>
<br>
The average current draw is around 250 mA for 2 masters sequences.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps. Incidentally the regulator does not get hot.<br>
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: colin chariandy <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>><br>
<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:40:21<br>
To: <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>; <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes.<br>
<br>
I can't find by physical inspection any "wacked out servos" or
other issues that might cause increased current load on the regulator.<br>
So....I'm trying to find the typical (or average) current that should
be seen at any moment (inst<br>
ant) on a meter in-line with the regulator. Then I'll run my set-up and
compare. If I'm in the ball park (less than 1A based on a couple of inputs so
far) then the problem is not related to "wacked out" servos,
binding etc.<br>
<br>
Colin<br>
<br>
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
From: Ed Alt <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a><br>
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 3:25 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
Average current is not the same as instantaneous current, unless the only
current being drawn was just for that single instant in time. Anyway, I will
repeat, with an added quailifer, for the sake of understanding for where to
look to help you solve the problem:<br>
<br>
If you are using a JACCIO, Tech-Aero, or whatever regulator in a pattern
setup, even with a YS CDI on a shared output, and if you find that you need a
heat sink, then:<br>
<br>
<br>
Something Else Is Wrong. Check your setup for binding linkages, stiff hinges,
whacked out servos, whatever.<br>
<br>
Seriously, check your setup, OK? Just trying to help here.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------<br>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:32:54 -0700<br>
From: <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.co%20%20m/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a><br>
To: <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>; <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Actually, if you consumed 200mAhr in 0.25hrs, then your average
(instantaneous) current was 800mA.0D<br>
<br>
Colin.<br>
<br>
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
From: <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net"
target="_blank">glmiller3@suddenlink.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Cc: "colin chariandy" <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>><br>
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 12:34 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
Colin,<br>
<br>
I'm running a different ignition system, but total consumption radio and
ignition) for an entire 15 minute flight is about 200 mah..200 X4 = 800
milliamps for an hour==2 00.8 amps per hour So the<br>
instantaneous current shouldn't be much.<br>
<br>
G<br>
<br>
---- colin chariandy <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>>
> wrote:<br>
<br>
=============<br>
Does anyone know what the current consumption should be at idle/run-up for a
typical YS170/Hyde/all digital servos installation?<br>
<br>
I'll stick a Watt's Up meter in there to see how much I'm pulling after the
regulator.<br>
<br>
Jim, what's the current limit for continuous operation and spike/inrush for
your regulator?<br>
<br>
Colin.<br>
<br>
--- On Sun, 4/26/09, James Oddino <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com"
target="_blank">joddino@socal.rr.com</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com"
target="_blank">http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com</a>>
> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: James Oddino <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com"
target="_blank">joddino@socal.rr.com</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com"
target="_blank">http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com</a>>
><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.<br>
To: <a href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo"
target="_blank">htt p://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo</a>.<br>
ca> , "General discussion" <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrc"
target="_blank">http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrc</a><br>
<br>
a.org> ><br>
Received: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 4:00 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
I don't believe a bad battery could cause the engine to rev up unless your
battery failsafe isn't set properly. Make sure it is.<br>
<br>
<br>
The first thing I would look at is the possibility that the throttle servo is
stalled at low speed. That could be pulling the battery/voltage regulator
voltage down and it could recover after you started to throttle up and removed
the heavy load.<br>
<br>
<br>
Finally I would run a one amp discharge test on the battery after it is fully
charged to see if the battery is near its original capacity. The best way to<br>
do this is to plot the voltage vs. time taking readings every 5 to 10
minutes.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hope this helps. Let us know what you find.<br>
<br>
<br>
Jim<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Apr 25, 2009, at 4:30 PM, <a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca"
target="_blank">http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I had a close call today=2 0with my R921 Rx in an Integral.<br>
<br>
I noticed on taxi out that the engine rev'd up and quickly back down without
any command. At first I thought I must have bumped the stick by accident.
Then just before take-off there was no responce from the throttle for a
second or two then it was back. I thought the 170 may have loaded up a lit<br>
tle and didnt respond. It did that one more time before<br>
I aborted the flight. However, I could'nt reproduce the problem in the
pits.<br>
<br>
Before powering down, I checked for holds or fades on the data logger - nil.<br>
<br>
<st1:place w:st="on">Battery</st1:place> voltage droped from 8.2V to 7.8V and
7.6 under 1A load. When I re-charged it took 350mA and I was only on for 3-4
mins.<br>
<br>
Now...I did accidentally run the battery down to like 5V during winter but it
did eventually recharge.<br>
<br>
I'm using a Jaccio perfect switch/6V regulator, Jaccio 2000mAHr (1 season<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for
Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrc"
target="_blank">http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrc</a><br>
<br>
a.org><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
<<a href="http://lists.nsrca.or%20%20g/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
__________________________________________________________________<br>
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet
Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at <a
href="http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" target="_blank">http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/</a>
<<a href="http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" target="_blank">http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
----------------<br>
Be smarter than spam.<br>
See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with
the <<a href="http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/"
target="_blank">http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/</a>> All-new
Yahoo! Mail<br>
<br>
----------------<br>
Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates=2<br>
0right in your inbox. Check it out. <<a
href="http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover"
target="_blank">http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover</a><br>
<br>
_Updates2_042009><br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrc"
target="_blank">http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrc</a><br>
<br>
a.org><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/li stinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
<<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>><br>
<br>
----------------<br>
Looking for the perfect gift? <<a href="http://www.flickr.com/gift/"
target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/gift/</a>> Give the gift of
Flickr!<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!<br>
<br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
All new Yahoo! Mail - Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet
Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it=2 0Now for Free!<br>
<br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
_______________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Instant message from any web browser! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for
the Web BETA<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. Check it
out.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Yahoo!<br>
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region> Toolbar : Search from
anywhere on<br>
the web and bookmark your favourite sites.
Download it now!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?%20%20to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet
Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! <a
href="http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/" target="_blank"><b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>Get it Now for Free! </span></b></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_3_74948717-75ed-4611-99b9-6bb14a39b8fc -->
<div id="AOLMsgPart_4_74948717-75ed-4611-99b9-6bb14a39b8fc"><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_4_74948717-75ed-4611-99b9-6bb14a39b8fc -->
<div id=MAILCIAMA011-5c6e4a00f3f8311>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-top:7.5pt;text-align:center'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:7.5pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Shopping
for Mom? <a
href="http://shopping.aol.com/mothers-day-gifts-for-mom?ncid=emlweinstor00000003">Save
yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping</a>.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>