<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Yup - heated with ovens and even other more desperate methods. :) Every week there was another "trick" that promised more power AND more longevity. As long as I've been doing this I can't ever remember the two going hand in hand. Don't get me wrong, I welcome new technology and new techniques as much as anyone. I just prefer to be "cautiously optimistic" and I try to look at all of the facts before jumping on the latest thing. I'm still flying 72MHz and I just recently gave up my analog cell phone. LOL</DIV>
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<DIV>John Pavlick</DIV>
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<DIV>BTW - My new cell phone takes nice pictures and the appointment calendar is a big help too. The telephone "feature" doesn't work all that well though.<BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 3/20/09, James <SPAN>Oddino</SPAN> <I><joddino@socal.rr.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: James Oddino <joddino@socal.rr.com><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge battery<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 5:27 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv382629193>John, you've got to be an optimist. We want it all. Who ever dreamed we'd have what we have now back in the NiCd days.
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<DIV>The peaking you did was no doubt heating them and lowering the Internal resistance. Did anyone ever try just heating them with an oven? That's what I do now and I believe it not only gives you better power right off the ground but I believe it is easier on the batteries. We'll see how my new packs hold up over time but so far they are looking great.</DIV>
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<DIV>Jim</DIV>
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<DIV>On Mar 19, 2009, at 10:09 PM, John Pavlick wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Going back to my "How many of you guys ever raced R/C cars" question - the reason I asked is because if you did you'd already be thinking like Dave. Well, not exactly. I don't believe anyone can think like Dave! LOL</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Back when I raced, we used NiCADs. Why? Because that's all we had. We had basically 2 kinds: high output / fast charge (SCR) and high capacity / slow charge (SCE) types. At the risk of oversimplifying - the difference had to do with internal resistance. For stock class we ran the high output type, for modifieds we used the high capacity type. To get Max performance from the high output batteries in stock class we charged them at 1 - 4C, then we re-peaked them before the race at 10 - 30C! Some guys used to charge until the cell vents opened. The result: a super hole-shot, lotsa power, 4 minutes worth of fun. Then we threw the battery pack out. They could only handle this kind of abuse once. You didn't do this every weekend, just for the really big events. OK, if you were spoonsored you did this all the time. :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The high capacity batteries had to be treated differently. Normally you charged at 1-4C. In a 2WD modified car you could expect to get at least a few cycles before you used the pack for practice. If you were "cheap" you'd take a pack that had been used 4 or 5 times, put it on a trickle charger overnight to "re-balance" the cells (sound familiar?) and used it until it dumped on the last lap and cost you a race. If you were sponsored you always had brand new "computer matched" batteries so you didn't have to do this.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bottom line: You can't have everything. You're going to trade off something. You need to understand exactly what you're getting with a new technology and if it's worth giving up something that the existing technology might do better. I doubt very much that you'll see a 30C discharge rate + 3C charge rate capable pack that weighs half as much as what we have now AND delivers more usable cycles as well. But I guess we can dream. VBG</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Dave</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>'General pattern discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:54 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge battery</DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The faster you charge, the fewer the cycles you get!! Figure cycle life is reduced by about 50% at 3C charge rates.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Stuart Chale<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:48 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge battery</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR:
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The key in my mind as we already have enough power in a makable weight for a new set of batteries, is the number of cycles you can get. It the new technology gets us 200 cycles before degradation then I'll take 2 :) Don't need three any more because they charge faster.<BR>Stuart<BR><BR>Ed Alt wrote: </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is very straightforward. The ideal battery is one that has 0 ohms internal resistance and infinite current delivery capability. This new technology gets you somewhat closer to that ideal. All it means is that it minimizes power losses due to much lower internal resistance, and reduces limitations that are placed on the performance of the thing you are powering with it. Even the ideal battery can only deliver as much current into the load as that device will draw based on its own resistance (actually impedance, but we'll keep it simple) Doesn't matter whether it is a motor, a light bulb or whatever. It's all good...</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ed</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=khoard@gmail.com href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Keith Hoard</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:15 PM</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge battery</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">How good would these batteries work in my glow starter?. . .</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2009/3/19 Ed Alt <<A href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>ed_alt@hotmail.com</A>></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No way! That is simply evidence that your paint needs to be upgraded!</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=trexlesh@msn.com href="mailto:trexlesh@msn.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Rex</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>NSRCA-discussion</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Thursday, March 19, 2009 4:33 PM</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge battery</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Now I'm just guessing here.... I'm thinking that if you throttle up and the paint<BR>strips off the fuse, that's probably a bit too much!<BR> <BR>Rex<BR> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">From: <A href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>joddino@socal.rr.com</A><BR>To: <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:10:06 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge battery<BR><BR>I used to say that an engine is a machine that doesn't make enough power. Now I say a motor is also a machine that doesn't make enough power. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Jim</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Mar 19, 2009, at 8:29 AM, J N Hiller wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">Hay Rex how much power do you need? You can do a vertical ROG now.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR><BR>Keith Hoard<BR>Collierville , TN<BR><A href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>khoard@gmail.com</A><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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