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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Going back to my "How many of you guys ever raced
R/C cars" question - the reason I asked is because if you did you'd already be
thinking like Dave. Well, not exactly. I don't believe anyone can think
like Dave! LOL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Back when I raced, we used NiCADs. Why? Because
that's all we had. We had basically 2 kinds: high output / fast charge (SCR) and
high capacity / slow charge (SCE) types. At the risk of oversimplifying -
the difference had to do with internal resistance. For stock class we ran the
high output type, for modifieds we used the high capacity type. To get Max
performance from the high output batteries in stock class we charged them at 1 -
4C, then we re-peaked them before the race at 10 - 30C! Some guys used to charge
until the cell vents opened. The result: a super hole-shot, lotsa power, 4
minutes worth of fun. Then we threw the battery pack out. They could only handle
this kind of abuse once. You didn't do this every weekend, just for the really
big events. OK, if you were spoonsored you did this all the time.
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The high capacity batteries had to be treated
differently. Normally you charged at 1-4C. In a 2WD modified car you could
expect to get at least a few cycles before you used the pack for practice. If
you were "cheap" you'd take a pack that had been used 4 or 5 times, put it on a
trickle charger overnight to "re-balance" the cells (sound familiar?) and used
it until it dumped on the last lap and cost you a race. If you were sponsored
you always had brand new "computer matched" batteries so you didn't have to do
this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bottom line: You can't have everything. You're
going to trade off something. You need to understand exactly what you're getting
with a new technology and if it's worth giving up something that the existing
technology might do better. I doubt very much that you'll see a 30C discharge
rate + 3C charge rate capable pack that weighs half as much as what we have now
AND delivers more usable cycles as well. But I guess we can dream.
VBG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">Dave</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New
fast charge battery</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The faster you
charge, the fewer the cycles you get!! Figure cycle life is reduced by
about 50% at 3C charge rates.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: windowtext">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Stuart Chale<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:48
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New
fast charge battery</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The key in my mind as we already have enough power in
a makable weight for a new set of batteries, is the number of cycles you can
get. It the new technology gets us 200 cycles before degradation then
I'll take 2 :) Don't need three any more because they charge
faster.<BR>Stuart<BR><BR>Ed Alt wrote: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is very
straightforward. The ideal battery is one that has 0 ohms internal
resistance and infinite current delivery capability. This new technology
gets you somewhat closer to that ideal. All it means is that it
minimizes power losses due to much lower internal resistance, and reduces
limitations that are placed on the performance of the thing you are powering
with it. Even the ideal battery can only deliver as much current into
the load as that device will draw based on its own resistance (actually
impedance, but we'll keep it simple) Doesn't matter whether it is a motor, a
light bulb or whatever. It's all
good...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ed</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0% 50%; BACKGROUND-ATTACHMENT: scroll; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=khoard@gmail.com href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Keith Hoard</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:15 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge
battery<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">How good would these
batteries work in my glow starter?. . .<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2009/3/19 Ed Alt <<A
href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ed_alt@hotmail.com</A>><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No way! That is simply
evidence that your paint needs to be
upgraded!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0% 50%; BACKGROUND-ATTACHMENT: scroll; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=trexlesh@msn.com href="mailto:trexlesh@msn.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">Rex</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">NSRCA-discussion</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Thursday, March 19, 2009 4:33 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New fast charge
battery<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Now I'm just guessing here.... I'm thinking
that if you throttle up and the paint<BR>strips off the fuse, that's
probably a bit too
much!<BR> <BR>Rex<BR> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">From: <A href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com"
target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">joddino@socal.rr.com</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date: Thu,
19 Mar 2009 14:10:06 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: New
fast charge battery<BR><BR>I used to say that an engine is a machine that
doesn't make enough power. Now I say a motor is also a machine that
doesn't make enough power. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Jim<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Mar 19, 2009, at 8:29 AM, J N Hiller
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">Hay
Rex how much power do you need? You can do a vertical ROG
now.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR clear=all><BR>--
<BR><BR>Keith Hoard<BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Collierville</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">TN</st1:State></st1:place><BR><A href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">khoard@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
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