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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> I always use 5 minute epoxy, and add a
few drops of denatured alcohol until I thinned it to the point I wanted, then
painted it on. I use a heat gun to really make it soak and it is always dried
in sort time.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> I have one plane with several years on it
and no fuel-oil damage.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> Also make sure it gets into the holes for
the fuel lines.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sincerely</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Linda A. Carnes</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>J Shu<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 16, 2009 2:45
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
thinning epoxy, how?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This is for the firewall and pipe tunnel.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com" title="gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E Fowler</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, March 16,
2009 2:35 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] thinning epoxy, how?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Jason</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Use
the finishing resin...if no styrofoam core issues, cut with acetone of MEK,
both sold at Home Depot or Lowes. If the core is yellow-brown then that is a
urethane ridgid foam and okay for acetone/MEK. <br>
</span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radomes and Specialty Apertures<br>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon</span></font> <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"J Shu"
<jshulman@cfl.rr.com></span></font></b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><br>
<font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Sent
by: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>03/16/2009 01:25 PM</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Please
respond to<br>
General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>"General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] thinning epoxy, how?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I have Z-Poxy 30 min and Finishing resin</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
Regards,<br>
Jason<u><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'><br>
</span></font></u></span></font><a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/"><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>www.shulmanaviation.com</span></font></a><u><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'><br>
</span></font></u><a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>www.composite-arf.com</span></font></a>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E Fowler</a> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 16, 2009 2:17
PM <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
thinning epoxy, how? <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
Jason</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
When you say finishing resin do mean epoxy or polyester? I do not understand
your configuration of bonding the horns, but if the bond is the only thing
holding the horns on, best use and adhesive. Laminating epoxies and all
polyesters have low peel strength = bad bond characteristics. Horns will
experience a cleave stress which is shear+peel, if there is any flex then lots
of peel stress.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
A <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>good</span></b> adhesive has thousands PSI
shear strength, but only 25 lbs of peel. Laminating resins peel = 0.</span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radomes and Specialty Apertures<br>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"J Shu"
<jshulman@cfl.rr.com></span></font></b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>03/16/2009 11:46 AM</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Please
respond to<br>
General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>"General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] thinning epoxy, how?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><br>
So much good info. I'm gonna use Finishing resin to seal the motor area. </span></font><br>
<font color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
How bad of an idea would it to be the finishing resin to glue in the fiberglass
horns into the wood surfaces?</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jason</span></font><u><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'><br>
</span></font></u><a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>www.shulmanaviation.com</span></font></a><u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'><br>
</span></font></u><a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>www.composite-arf.com</span></font></a>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
From:</span></b> <a href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E Fowler</a> <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'><br>
To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 16, 2009 11:44 AM <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] thinning epoxy, how? <br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Jim</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Polyesters will not cure when in contact with oxygen, leaving a sticky surface.
If your surface is not sticky after applying-curing polyester then you are
using a "true" polyester finishing resin, which is fine, BUT look out
because to stop the oxygen inhibition polyester "finishing" resins
add 5% wax, which floats to the surface and blocks the oxygen. I say lookout,
because any future bonding to this area will be extremely poor. If you are not
bonding to an area saturated with this resin you are fine.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
K&B paint was fine, just a regular epoxy cured with a polyamide, meaning
the mixture needs to be "inducted" prior to use, that is mixed up and
then sits in a mass for a t least 15 minutes (read the instructions) or the
polyimide will slightly separate giving you a sticky surface.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Unfamiliar Formula U, but Concept clear works very well.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
I always clear coat with Concept 2021..easy, lightweight and more durable. My
entire engine area is sealed with Concept clear or laminating epoxy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radomes and Specialty Apertures<br>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] thinning epoxy, how?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
<br>
Thank you for the very informative information. I have never used epoxy for
fuel proofing. I've used Polyester finishing resin and K&B epoxy paint
until I ran out and recently Formula-U Polyurethane paint. What are your
thoughts on these alternate materials?</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>I find fuel proof compromising gouges are more visible using
colored paint rather than a clear coating.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Jim Hiller</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Gray E Fowler<b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 16, 2009 6:24 AM<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'><br>
To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] thinning epoxy, how?</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
Fast curing epoxy adhesives such as the 30 minute are a bad initial choice. I
realize that thousands have used it in these applications, but that still does
not make it a good choice. The non reactive components in the fast epoxy
plasticize with age and methanol and nitro will seriously degrade the stuff.
Using one of the thinner slower curing laminating resins will require less
solvent, if any and provide a much longer lasting barrier. Any solvent added to
an epoxy needs to evaporate completely or you will created a problem. Denatured
alcohol (ethanol) evaporates very slowly. Cutting a fast cure epoxy with a slow
evaporating solvent is a recipe for trapping alot of solvent, making the
chemical resistant even worse. Methanol evaporates much faster and epoxy is
much more soluable in methanol. Be very careful using ketone solvents (acetone,
MEK) or aromatics (Toluene, Xylene) because many kit manufacturers use
styrofoam as a core material that will be destroyed in seconds with all
solvents except the alcohols.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
SO!</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
1. Use a thin slower cure laminating resin</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
2. Use Acetone, MEK or Laquer thinner</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
3. NO puddles, super thin coat</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
4. Alcohols if you have a styrofoam core</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
5. rule #3 again</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
6. If you only need the plane to last 1 year, then use 15 minute epoxy and do
not worry..it will last 1 year or so.</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radomes and Specialty Apertures<br>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"J Shu"
<jshulman@cfl.rr.com></span></font></b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> <br>
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>03/15/2009 02:15 AM</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
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<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
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<br>
<br>
I want to add another layer of sealer to the firewall and tunnel on my plane...
what's the best way to do it with epoxy? I've got 30 <br>
minute but not sure how to thin it to seal it.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
www.shulmanaviation.com<br>
www.composite-arf.com<br>
[attachment "IMG_4498 (500 x 299).jpg" deleted by Gray E
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