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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Notice, I said kind-of because I know there are 
guys who represent countries that hardly fly...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
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  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=mjfrederick@cox.net href="mailto:mjfrederick@cox.net">Matthew 
  Frederick</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
  title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
  href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A> 
  </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:14 
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings 
  and Takeoffs</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From what I've seen most F3A competitors do some 
  pretty sweet landings anyway... Makes me sick whenever I watch Bryan Hebert 
  land... Hell, when he's practicing for the Nats he only cuts about a 50x15 
  rectangle in our runway so he has enough room to work (he's the only one who 
  flies during the week)... But I completely understand where Jason's coming 
  from on the time limits, plus at that level the landing and takeoffs are 
  kind-of a given...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
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    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV 
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
    <A title=jshulman@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">J Shu</A> 
    </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
    title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
    href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern 
    discussion</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:36 
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 
    Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>We have 8 minutes. As of now we finish 
    our flights after the 7 min mark. To get scored on t/o and landing, we would 
    need to try... and also take the time on landing.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A 
    href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
    href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
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      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
      <DIV 
      style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
      <A title=schale@optonline.net href="mailto:schale@optonline.net">Stuart 
      Chale</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
      title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
      href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern 
      discussion</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 
      Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>You (FAI) still have to take off and land.&nbsp; How much 
      longer would it take to make a pretty take off and landing instead of what 
      you do now.&nbsp; I suspect the landing would be the same as you still 
      have to slow down to landing speed :)&nbsp; The takeoff may take what 3 or 
      4 seconds more to fly smoothly to 2 meters before turning somewhere?&nbsp; 
      Keep the time limit as it is on the flying portion and just score the 
      takeoff and landings 1 to 10.<BR>Done :)<BR><BR>J Shu wrote: 
      <BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:E3BEBD0704CD4D579AF455CA73C52357@UncleJasPC 
      type="cite">
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        <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>Because it takes time to make a 
        perfect take-off and landing, and currently the time stops after the 
        half roll after the 45-downs. We wouldn't have enough time unless the 
        time limit was raised.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com" 
        moz-do-not-send="true">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
        href="http://www.composite-arf.com" 
        moz-do-not-send="true">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE 
        style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,128) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV 
          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
          Original Message ----- </DIV>
          <DIV 
          style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
          <A title=jerry@buddengineering.com 
          href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Budd 
          Engineering</A> </DIV>
          <DIV 
          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
          <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
          href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
          moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
          <DIV 
          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
          Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:56 PM</DIV>
          <DIV 
          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
          Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
          <DIV><BR></DIV>
          <DIV>Why would FAI have less time for scored TO's/L's than any other 
          class? &nbsp;With the exception of Sportsman (and possibly 
          Intermediate), FAI flys the shortest sequence. &nbsp;Masters in 
          particular takes way longer.</DIV>
          <DIV><BR></DIV>
          <DIV>Jerry&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
          <DIV><BR>On Mar 3, 2009, at 8:25 AM, "J Shu" &lt;<A 
          href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com" 
          moz-do-not-send="true">jshulman@cfl.rr.com</A>&gt; 
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>I'm certainly not THE expert... 
            I'm just going by my observations of pattern now to pattern when I 
            was a kid. Like Stuart said, nothing beat a nose high take-off or 
            landing down the centerline... and not many could do it. At least 
            back then the only planes I remember running from weren't pattern 
            planes, but scale planes!</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>I used to always lose bets with 
            my brother for the best take-off and landings cause his Ugly Stick 
            was the perfect plane for that. He would line it up on the center 
            line and roll down the runway, lift the nose just before the judges 
            and break ground just after... 10. And then do the same thing for 
            landing and get 10's there too. But his loops always ended up in the 
            next county so I won the flying bets. </FONT></DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>FAI doesn't need to have scored 
            take-offs and landings... we don't have time for it. But I don't see 
            why AMA shouldn't be scored (and taught) on take-offs and landings. 
            If you're a good pilot, then these should be freebie points for the 
            taking. </FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A 
            href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com" 
            moz-do-not-send="true">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
            href="http://www.composite-arf.com" 
            moz-do-not-send="true">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE 
            style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,128) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
              Original Message ----- </DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
              <A title=geobet4@verizon.net href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
              moz-do-not-send="true">George W.Kennie</A> </DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
              <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
              href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
              moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
              Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:46 AM</DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
              Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
              <DIV><BR></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>There you have it from THE&nbsp; 
              expert !!!!!!!!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE 
              style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
                Original Message ----- </DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
                <A title=jshulman@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com" 
                moz-do-not-send="true">J Shu</A> </DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
                <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
                href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
                Monday, March 02, 2009 6:06 PM</DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
                Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
                <DIV><BR></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>I'd much rather see 
                take-offs and landings be judged. What's the incentive&nbsp;of 
                having a pilot learn how to learn a proper (and safe) take-off 
                and landing if there is no 10 to shoot for? And not a 0 or 10, 
                but scored. Just because it wouldn't be scored doesn't make a 
                pilot try and make a safe take-off or landing.</FONT></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A 
                href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com" 
                moz-do-not-send="true">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
                href="http://www.composite-arf.com" 
                moz-do-not-send="true">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
                <BLOCKQUOTE 
                style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,128) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                  <DIV 
                  style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
                  Original Message ----- </DIV>
                  <DIV 
                  style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
                  <A title=timsautopro@yahoo.com 
                  href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Tim 
                  Taylor</A> </DIV>
                  <DIV 
                  style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
                  <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
                  href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                  moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
                  <DIV 
                  style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
                  Monday, March 02, 2009 4:53 PM</DIV>
                  <DIV 
                  style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
                  Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
                  <DIV><BR></DIV>
                  <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
                    <TBODY>
                    <TR>
                      <TD vAlign=top>
                        <DIV>I agree, TO's and Landings shouldn't be judged. Add 
                        one turn around and center maneuver to the classes that 
                        score them. Exit the box down wind then they can make a 
                        180 to landing.</DIV>
                        <DIV>Tim<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie 
                        <I>&lt;<A href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
                        moz-do-not-send="true">geobet4@verizon.net</A>&gt;</I></B> 
                        wrote:<BR></DIV>
                        <BLOCKQUOTE 
                        style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: 
                          George W.Kennie &lt;<A 
                          href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
                          moz-do-not-send="true">geobet4@verizon.net</A>&gt;<BR>Subject: 
                          Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs<BR>To: 
                          "General pattern discussion" &lt;<A 
                          href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                          moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>&gt;<BR>Date: 
                          Monday, March 2, 2009, 4:44 PM<BR><BR>
                          <DIV id=yiv380045516>
                          <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I think that dropping the 
                          scoring of&nbsp; TOs and LGs with the intent of 
                          reducing risk will be only minimally effective. 
                          There&nbsp;are always going to be individuals who will 
                          experience difficulty with crossing winds, turbulance, 
                          ineptitude, whatever, no matter how many times they go 
                          around. I can think of individuals who would include 
                          me in the group.</FONT></DIV>
                          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>G.</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <BLOCKQUOTE 
                          style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                            <DIV 
                            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
                            Original Message ----- </DIV>
                            <DIV 
                            style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
                            <A title=jnhiller@earthlink.net 
                            href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" target=_blank 
                            rel=nofollow moz-do-not-send="true">J N Hiller</A> 
                            </DIV>
                            <DIV 
                            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
                            <A href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com" 
                            moz-do-not-send="true">bob@toprudder.com</A> ; <A 
                            title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
                            href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                            target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                            moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern 
                            discussion</A> </DIV>
                            <DIV 
                            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
                            Monday, March 02, 2009 3:13 PM</DIV>
                            <DIV 
                            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
                            Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
                            <DIV><BR></DIV>
                            <DIV class=Section1>
                            <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT 
                            face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
                            style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You make 
                            a good argument for dropping takeoff and landing 
                            scoring. I have aborted landings more than 
                            once.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
                            <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT 
                            face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
                            style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
                          <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT 
                          face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
                          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
                          face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original 
                          Message-----<BR><B><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A 
                          href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" 
                          moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> 
                          [<A 
                          href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" 
                          moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob 
                          Richards<BR><B><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 
                          March 02, 2009 10:28 AM<BR><B><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General 
                          pattern discussion<BR><B><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: 
                          [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</SPAN></FONT> 
                          </P>
                          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
                          face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></P>
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                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">I'll 
                                say it here, JMHO. I personally don't think 
                                takeoffs and landings should be judged. These 
                                are the maneuvers that put the plane closest to 
                                the pilots/judges/spectators. I've seen some bad 
                                takeoffs and landing approaches pushed 
                                to&nbsp;dangerous situations when they would 
                                probably have been aborted had they not been 
                                scored maneuvers. At the very least, the 
                                airplane is at risk. At the most, people are at 
                                risk. I've had one plane fly behind my head at 
                                the Nats (between myself, my caller, and the 
                                judges) during a landing when the plane got away 
                                from the pilot during one such occurance. I've 
                                also seen a plane slam into a person in the pits 
                                at full throttle, just after lifting off the 
                                ground, when the plane first veered away from 
                                the pits and the pilot forced the takeoff by 
                                kicking rudder to get it back on the runway. At 
                                no point did he back off the throttle. In most 
                                situations such as this, anyone would have 
                                aborted and started over, but because they are 
                                being judged they keep on pushing a bad 
                                situation.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                                </P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">And, 
                                no, niether situation involved someone in the 
                                Sportsman or Intermediate classes. These were 
                                both contestants that had flown pattern for 
                                several years. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">I 
                                thank god they don't judge takeoffs and landings 
                                in IMAC.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                                </P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">JM2CW</SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                                </P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">Bob 
                                R.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                                </P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"><BR><BR>--- 
                                On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 
                                3/2/09, George W.Kennie <I><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-STYLE: italic">&lt;<A 
                                href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
                                moz-do-not-send="true">geobet4@verizon.net</A>&gt;</SPAN></I></SPAN></B> 
                                wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                                </P>
                                <DIV 
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                                <P class=MsoNormal 
                                style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                                face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
                                <DIV id=yiv297695904>I don't feel the same way 
                                as John on the landing maneuver being relegated 
                                to a non-skill element. <FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
                                <P class=MsoNormal 
                                style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></SPAN></FONT>
                                <P></P><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2>
                                <P class=MsoNormal 
                                style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                                face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">All 
                                aerobatic maneuvers that we perform 
                                competitively require that we demonstrate to a 
                                judge that we have developed some precise degree 
                                of control over the airframe under our command. 
                                To achieve this control further requires intense 
                                concentration on the part of the pilot. I would 
                                offer that there are many airborne maneuvers 
                                where the degree of concentration required by 
                                the pilot are significantly lower than that 
                                required to bring the airframe back into contact 
                                with terra firma and demonstrate complete and 
                                confident control. This is a skill that is 
                                worthy of reward in my 
                                viewpoint.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P></FONT></DIV><FONT 
                                face=Arial color=black size=2>
                                <P class=MsoNormal 
                                style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal 
                                style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                                face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN 
                                style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">G.&nbsp; 
                                </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                                color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal 
                                style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
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                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                                <P class=MsoNormal 
                                style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
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                                style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                                face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                                style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
                          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
                          face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                          color=black><SPAN 
                          style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
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              I am using the Free version of <A 
              href="http://www.spamfighter.com/len" 
              moz-do-not-send="true">SPAMfighter</A>.<BR>We are a community of 6 
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