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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From what I've seen most F3A competitors do some 
pretty sweet landings anyway... Makes me sick whenever I watch Bryan Hebert 
land... Hell, when he's practicing for the Nats he only cuts about a 50x15 
rectangle in our runway so he has enough room to work (he's the only one who 
flies during the week)... But I completely understand where Jason's coming from 
on the time limits, plus at that level the landing and takeoffs are kind-of a 
given...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
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  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=jshulman@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">J Shu</A> 
</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
  title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
  href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A> 
  </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:36 
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings 
  and Takeoffs</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>We have 8 minutes. As of now we finish our 
  flights after the 7 min mark. To get scored on t/o and landing, we would need 
  to try... and also take the time on landing.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A 
  href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
  href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
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    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV 
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
    <A title=schale@optonline.net href="mailto:schale@optonline.net">Stuart 
    Chale</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
    title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
    href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern 
    discussion</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 
    Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>You (FAI) still have to take off and land.&nbsp; How much 
    longer would it take to make a pretty take off and landing instead of what 
    you do now.&nbsp; I suspect the landing would be the same as you still have 
    to slow down to landing speed :)&nbsp; The takeoff may take what 3 or 4 
    seconds more to fly smoothly to 2 meters before turning somewhere?&nbsp; 
    Keep the time limit as it is on the flying portion and just score the 
    takeoff and landings 1 to 10.<BR>Done :)<BR><BR>J Shu wrote: 
    <BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:E3BEBD0704CD4D579AF455CA73C52357@UncleJasPC 
type="cite">
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      <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>Because it takes time to make a 
      perfect take-off and landing, and currently the time stops after the half 
      roll after the 45-downs. We wouldn't have enough time unless the time 
      limit was raised.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com" 
      moz-do-not-send="true">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
      href="http://www.composite-arf.com" 
      moz-do-not-send="true">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE 
      style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,128) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV 
        style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
        Original Message ----- </DIV>
        <DIV 
        style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
        <A title=jerry@buddengineering.com 
        href="mailto:jerry@buddengineering.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Budd 
        Engineering</A> </DIV>
        <DIV 
        style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
        <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
        href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
        moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
        <DIV 
        style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
        Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:56 PM</DIV>
        <DIV 
        style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
        Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>Why would FAI have less time for scored TO's/L's than any other 
        class? &nbsp;With the exception of Sportsman (and possibly 
        Intermediate), FAI flys the shortest sequence. &nbsp;Masters in 
        particular takes way longer.</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV>Jerry&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
        <DIV><BR>On Mar 3, 2009, at 8:25 AM, "J Shu" &lt;<A 
        href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com" 
        moz-do-not-send="true">jshulman@cfl.rr.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>I'm certainly not THE expert... 
          I'm just going by my observations of pattern now to pattern when I was 
          a kid. Like Stuart said, nothing beat a nose high take-off or landing 
          down the centerline... and not many could do it. At least back then 
          the only planes I remember running from weren't pattern planes, but 
          scale planes!</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>I used to always lose bets with my 
          brother for the best take-off and landings cause his Ugly Stick was 
          the perfect plane for that. He would line it up on the center line and 
          roll down the runway, lift the nose just before the judges and break 
          ground just after... 10. And then do the same thing for landing and 
          get 10's there too. But his loops always ended up in the next county 
          so I won the flying bets. </FONT></DIV>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>FAI doesn't need to have scored 
          take-offs and landings... we don't have time for it. But I don't see 
          why AMA shouldn't be scored (and taught) on take-offs and landings. If 
          you're a good pilot, then these should be freebie points for the 
          taking. </FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com" 
          moz-do-not-send="true">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
          href="http://www.composite-arf.com" 
          moz-do-not-send="true">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE 
          style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,128) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV 
            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
            Original Message ----- </DIV>
            <DIV 
            style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
            <A title=geobet4@verizon.net href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
            moz-do-not-send="true">George W.Kennie</A> </DIV>
            <DIV 
            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
            <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
            href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
            moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
            <DIV 
            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
            Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:46 AM</DIV>
            <DIV 
            style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
            Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
            <DIV><BR></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>There you have it from THE&nbsp; expert 
            !!!!!!!!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE 
            style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
              Original Message ----- </DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
              <A title=jshulman@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com" 
              moz-do-not-send="true">J Shu</A> </DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
              <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
              href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
              moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
              Monday, March 02, 2009 6:06 PM</DIV>
              <DIV 
              style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
              Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
              <DIV><BR></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>I'd much rather see take-offs 
              and landings be judged. What's the incentive&nbsp;of having a 
              pilot learn how to learn a proper (and safe) take-off and landing 
              if there is no 10 to shoot for? And not a 0 or 10, but scored. 
              Just because it wouldn't be scored doesn't make a pilot try and 
              make a safe take-off or landing.</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A 
              href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com" 
              moz-do-not-send="true">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A 
              href="http://www.composite-arf.com" 
              moz-do-not-send="true">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE 
              style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,128) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
                Original Message ----- </DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
                <A title=timsautopro@yahoo.com 
                href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Tim 
                Taylor</A> </DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
                <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
                href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
                Monday, March 02, 2009 4:53 PM</DIV>
                <DIV 
                style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
                Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
                <DIV><BR></DIV>
                <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
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                      <DIV>I agree, TO's and Landings shouldn't be judged. Add 
                      one turn around and center maneuver to the classes that 
                      score them. Exit the box down wind then they can make a 
                      180 to landing.</DIV>
                      <DIV>Tim<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie 
                      <I>&lt;<A href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
                      moz-do-not-send="true">geobet4@verizon.net</A>&gt;</I></B> 
                      wrote:<BR></DIV>
                      <BLOCKQUOTE 
                      style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: 
                        George W.Kennie &lt;<A href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
                        moz-do-not-send="true">geobet4@verizon.net</A>&gt;<BR>Subject: 
                        Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs<BR>To: 
                        "General pattern discussion" &lt;<A 
                        href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                        moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>&gt;<BR>Date: 
                        Monday, March 2, 2009, 4:44 PM<BR><BR>
                        <DIV id=yiv380045516>
                        <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I think that dropping the 
                        scoring of&nbsp; TOs and LGs with the intent of reducing 
                        risk will be only minimally effective. There&nbsp;are 
                        always going to be individuals who will experience 
                        difficulty with crossing winds, turbulance, ineptitude, 
                        whatever, no matter how many times they go around. I can 
                        think of individuals who would include me in the 
                        group.</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>G.</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <BLOCKQUOTE 
                        style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                          <DIV 
                          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- 
                          Original Message ----- </DIV>
                          <DIV 
                          style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> 
                          <A title=jnhiller@earthlink.net 
                          href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" target=_blank 
                          rel=nofollow moz-do-not-send="true">J N Hiller</A> 
                          </DIV>
                          <DIV 
                          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> 
                          <A href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com" 
                          moz-do-not-send="true">bob@toprudder.com</A> ; <A 
                          title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
                          href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                          target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                          moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> 
                          </DIV>
                          <DIV 
                          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> 
                          Monday, March 02, 2009 3:13 PM</DIV>
                          <DIV 
                          style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> 
                          Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
                          <DIV><BR></DIV>
                          <DIV class=Section1>
                          <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT 
                          face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You make a 
                          good argument for dropping takeoff and landing 
                          scoring. I have aborted landings more than 
                          once.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
                          <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT 
                          face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
                        <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT 
                        face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
                        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
                        face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original 
                        Message-----<BR><B><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A 
                        href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" 
                        moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> 
                        [<A 
                        href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" 
                        moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob 
                        Richards<BR><B><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, March 
                        02, 2009 10:28 AM<BR><B><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern 
                        discussion<BR><B><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: 
                        [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</SPAN></FONT> 
                        </P>
                        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
                        face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></P>
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                          <TR>
                            <TD 
                            style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" 
                            vAlign=top>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">I'll 
                              say it here, JMHO. I personally don't think 
                              takeoffs and landings should be judged. These are 
                              the maneuvers that put the plane closest to the 
                              pilots/judges/spectators. I've seen some bad 
                              takeoffs and landing approaches pushed 
                              to&nbsp;dangerous situations when they would 
                              probably have been aborted had they not been 
                              scored maneuvers. At the very least, the airplane 
                              is at risk. At the most, people are at risk. I've 
                              had one plane fly behind my head at the Nats 
                              (between myself, my caller, and the judges) during 
                              a landing when the plane got away from the pilot 
                              during one such occurance. I've also seen a plane 
                              slam into a person in the pits at full throttle, 
                              just after lifting off the ground, when the plane 
                              first veered away from the pits and the pilot 
                              forced the takeoff by kicking rudder to get it 
                              back on the runway. At no point did he back off 
                              the throttle. In most situations such as this, 
                              anyone would have aborted and started over, but 
                              because they are being judged they keep on pushing 
                              a bad situation.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                              color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                              </P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">And, 
                              no, niether situation involved someone in the 
                              Sportsman or Intermediate classes. These were both 
                              contestants that had flown pattern for several 
                              years. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                              color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">I 
                              thank god they don't judge takeoffs and landings 
                              in IMAC.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                              color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                              </P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">JM2CW</SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                              </P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">Bob 
                              R.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                              color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                              </P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black 
                              size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"><BR><BR>--- 
                              On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 3/2/09, 
                              George W.Kennie <I><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-STYLE: italic">&lt;<A 
                              href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" 
                              moz-do-not-send="true">geobet4@verizon.net</A>&gt;</SPAN></I></SPAN></B> 
                              wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                              color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> 
                              </P>
                              <DIV 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
                              <P class=MsoNormal 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                              face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
                              <DIV id=yiv297695904>I don't feel the same way as 
                              John on the landing maneuver being relegated to a 
                              non-skill element. <FONT face=inherit 
                              color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
                              <P class=MsoNormal 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></SPAN></FONT>
                              <P></P><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2>
                              <P class=MsoNormal 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                              face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">All 
                              aerobatic maneuvers that we perform competitively 
                              require that we demonstrate to a judge that we 
                              have developed some precise degree of control over 
                              the airframe under our command. To achieve this 
                              control further requires intense concentration on 
                              the part of the pilot. I would offer that there 
                              are many airborne maneuvers where the degree of 
                              concentration required by the pilot are 
                              significantly lower than that required to bring 
                              the airframe back into contact with terra firma 
                              and demonstrate complete and confident control. 
                              This is a skill that is worthy of reward in my 
                              viewpoint.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit 
                              color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P></FONT></DIV><FONT 
                              face=Arial color=black size=2>
                              <P class=MsoNormal 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                              face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">G.&nbsp; 
                              </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                              <P class=MsoNormal 
                              style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN 
                              style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                              face=inherit color=black><SPAN 
                              style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
                        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT 
                        face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN 
                        style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
                        color=black><SPAN 
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
                        <DIV>
                        <HR>
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            href="http://www.spamfighter.com/len" 
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            spam emails to date.<BR>The Professional version does not have this 
            message.<BR>
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