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<DIV><FONT size=2>Any time, Georgie, any time!<G> Bill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet4@verizon.net href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">George
W.Kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:32
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I love that revocation clause, Bill.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm going to file that away for future
application, If it's O.K.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net">billglaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:22
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Keith:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>With all due respect, (and I have an idea that lots of
folks may do it your way, occasionally,) for years we have been trying
to get around the "impression" aspect of judging, It's hard to do, but
that's why, (I believe) we have such detailed maneuver descriptions in the
rules. (Again, my idea.) If this impression judging is extended,
it could, in theory, be used for all judged maneuvers by some folks.
Or so it seems to me. I understand the difficulty, and perhaps
impossibility, of absolutely tying down each and every little thing. I
doubt, in fact, that it's possible. But I feel that we should still
try; each attempt brings us a little closer to the absolute.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The above is purely my opinion, and is subject to being
revoked without notice!<G></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=khoard@gmail.com href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">Keith Hoard</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:06
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I would just give a score based on my IMPRESSION of the
landing. . . it it looks good, then a 9 - 9.5 - or 10 depending on how I
felt the pilots flight went prior to the landing and other previous
flights I have judged.<BR><BR>If anyone presses me afterward, I will just
claim the "smooth and graceful" clause in the AMA rulebook. . . that
covers everything!!!<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:36 AM, billglaze <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net">billglaze@bellsouth.net</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV lang=EN-US bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV><FONT size=2>Don:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There are times when for one reason or another, the
field is unmarked with a landing zone, and the CD announces that the LZ
is the entire runway, making the LZ and the LA the same.
That's what leads to doubt in judging landings. At least in my
case, and, apparently, other folks also. And, like Georgie, I've
also seen the 2 meter requirement mentioned; can't put my finger on it
right now, but I've seen it in some official document.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donramsey@gmail.com href="mailto:donramsey@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Don Ramsey</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>'General
pattern discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">I just check
all the PowerPoint presentations on the website and they all say the
same thing.<SPAN> </SPAN>LANDING AREA: the entire defined
runway.<SPAN> </SPAN>LANDING ZONE is 30 m long and normally the
width of the runway BUT not more than 30 M wide.<SPAN>
</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Georgie, the
landing never has been required to be within 2 meters of center for
maximum points.<SPAN> </SPAN>As long as I was judging chairman
(and before) it was 30 meters centered on the judges.<SPAN>
</SPAN>Landing in that area could score max points. (The takeoff
should lift off within 2 meters of center for max points).</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">There is a lot
of times when the aircraft may stop within 10 meters after landing and
there are many times when it may not.<SPAN> </SPAN>For instance,
grass runway with high grass or a smooth cement runway and no
wind.<SPAN> </SPAN>The intent of the rule was to allow max
points for either case. I’ve flown in some contests where if you
landed in the landing zone (for max points) it was almost impossible
to keep the plane from exiting the end of the runway. Solution: land
about 10 meters before center, roll 10 meters and be finished, then
don’t worry about running off the end.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Don</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>George W.Kennie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009
11:23 AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P> </P>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"># 2 screw-up !!!! It's
not "roll to a stop within 15 meters", it's 10 meters, but the
"stop" is still the elementle crux, I think. If it says " no
downgrade if the model rolls to a stop within 10 meters" doesn't
that infer that if the model continues to roll beyond that distance it
becomews a downgradeable offence (1/2pt +)?</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">And if it's not a centered maneuver,
where'd we come up with the axiom " for maximum landing points,
touchdown should occur < 2 meters either side of the
centerline"? Is that FAI ?</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Did
I make it up? Am I totally losing it? How the heck is anyone expected
to keep all this stuff straight?</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message -----
</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=jlkonn@hotmail.com
href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com" target=_blank>John Konneker</A>
</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>Discussion List</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32
AM</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cut and pasted from the AMA website
this morning:<BR><B>Landing: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The landing maneuver will be scored in half
point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver will start two (2)
meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly to a nose high
altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly touches the
ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver should be considered
<B>complete once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled
10 meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be
applied after that point</B>. <BR>The landing zone shall be marked
by lines placed perpendicular across the runway and spaced 30 meters
apart. The width of the landing zone is normally the width of the
runway but in no case shall exceed 30 meters. <B>Landing is not a
centered maneuver and there is no downgrade for displacement of the
touchdown point left or right from center as long as the landing is
in the landing zone.</B> If the touchdown is within the runway but
not in the landing zone it should be downgraded proportionate to the
distance outside the landing zone. The Contest Director may
designate any landing zone appropriate to the field if safety
considerations dictate. If the landing zone is anything other than
standard it should be thoroughly discussed with the pilots and
judges before flying is started and no downgrade shall be applied
due to the touchdown in the non-standard landing zone.
<BR></SPAN><SPAN>Emphasis added by me. This of course for AMA
classes.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>JLK<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR> </SPAN></P>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:
<A href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net"
target=_blank>geobet4@verizon.net</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date: Mon, 2
Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Bill,</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">This is probably inaccurate, but
I notice that noone else has responded to your inquiry so just to
prove that I have not learned my lesson, here goes.
</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">In the landing descriptor it
states, " there is no down grade if the model rolls to a stop within
15 meters". I think the crucial word is STOP
! What does this mean to proper execution?
How many times have you seen a plane touch down perfectly within one
meter of the center line and then proceed to roll perfectly straight
down the center of the runway without a single bounce for a distance
of 150 feet? A little hot maybe, but to most observers, a
beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters"
stipulation, it would appear that this becomes a downgradeable
offence. Sounds, to me, like maybe it's the pilot's responsibility
to also control the approach airspeed so that touchdown occurs just
above stall speed controlling the rollout distance, but maybe
somebody will correct me on this. I think this would also cover
stuff like flipovers after the 15 meter rollout.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">If the pilot performs a
landing and meets all the above requirements and then
encounters an obstacle, whether that be a hole or a hummock or
whatever, I would deem the execution faultless and rule "beyond the
pilot's control" and score a 10. Flipovers usually occur as a
result of either the plane being outside the landing zone or
equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel e.t.c.) and would require
discretionary judgement on the part of the scorer.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">And yup, I agree, It's got to be
a physical impossibility to enter and exit a Split Esse at the same
altitude. I think that needs correcting. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Of course, all this is my
opinionated interpretation of matters and should be so
received.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">G.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message -----
</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=billglaze@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net" target=_blank>billglaze</A>
</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca- discussion</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30
PM</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">At the risk of starting another
downwind turn discussion:</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I've been reading over the
excellent PowerPoint presentation, and I'd like a question
answered that I've had for a long time.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On landing, if the plane
overturns AT ANY TIME is it an automatic zero? I've felt for
a long time that it should be, yet I've had people tell me "after
50 ft. landing roll, we've completely lost interest in the
airplane." It can roll anywhere, do anything, and it doesn't
affect the score, is their idea. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the
landing zone, and then rolls immediately into what awaits, (in
some cases, a small canyon) is the landing zeroed? I've been
called for doing so once.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Secondly, in reading the
presentation for Intermediate, it states for the Split S: A
downgrade if the entry and exit are not at the same
altitude. Seems to me to be an error that slipped by, but
I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes, it's
happened!)<G> I've been known to incorrectly
read/interpret also. Standing by for the more knowledgeable
brains on the list!</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">thanks</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Bill Glaze</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NSRCA 2388</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
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target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
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clear=all><BR>-- <BR><BR>Keith Hoard<BR>Collierville, TN<BR><A
href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><BR>
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