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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle43><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hay, now
I'm offended. Not all scale pilots have wild takeoffs. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle43><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle43><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Pavlick<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, March 03, 2009
10:11 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Landings and Takeoffs</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>Oh yeah, it's still
a good idea to run from the scale airplanes! Especially at my club field!
LOL</span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:
inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>John Pavlick</span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Tue, 3/3/09, J Shu <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><jshulman@cfl.rr.com></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:
inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>From:
J Shu <jshulman@cfl.rr.com><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs<br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 4:25 PM</span></font><font color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>
<div id=yiv1979162847>I'm certainly not THE expert... I'm just going by my
observations of pattern now to pattern when I was a kid. Like Stuart said,
nothing beat a nose high take-off or landing down the centerline... and not
many could do it. At least back then the only planes I remember running from
weren't pattern planes, but scale planes!</span></font><font color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I used to always lose bets with my brother for the best take-off
and landings cause his Ugly Stick was the perfect plane for that. He would
line it up on the center line and roll down the runway, lift the nose just
before the judges and break ground just after... 10. And then do the same
thing for landing and get 10's there too. But his loops always ended up in
the next county so I won the flying bets. </span></font><font color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'> </span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>FAI doesn't need to have scored take-offs and landings... we
don't have time for it. But I don't see why AMA shouldn't be scored (and
taught) on take-offs and landings. If you're a good pilot, then these should
be freebie points for the taking. </span></font><font color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'><br>
Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target="_blank" rel=nofollow>www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target="_blank" rel=nofollow>www.composite-arf.com</a></span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;
mso-border-left-alt:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net" target="_blank"
title="geobet4@verizon.net" rel=nofollow>George W.Kennie</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow>General pattern
discussion</a> </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:46 AM</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;
color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=5
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>There you have it from THE expert !!!!!!!!!!!!</span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:
none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com" target="_blank"
title="jshulman@cfl.rr.com" rel=nofollow>J Shu</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow>General pattern
discussion</a> </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Monday, March 02, 2009 6:06 PM</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I'd much rather see take-offs and landings be judged. What's the
incentive of having a pilot learn how to learn a proper (and safe)
take-off and landing if there is no 10 to shoot for? And not a 0 or 10, but
scored. Just because it wouldn't be scored doesn't make a pilot try and make
a safe take-off or landing.</span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><br>
Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target="_blank" rel=nofollow>www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target="_blank" rel=nofollow>www.composite-arf.com</a></span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;
mso-border-left-alt:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
title="timsautopro@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow>Tim Taylor</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow>General pattern
discussion</a> </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Monday, March 02, 2009 4:53 PM</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;
color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='mso-cellspacing:0in;
margin-left:15.0pt;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I agree, TO's and Landings shouldn't
be judged. Add one turn around and center maneuver to the classes that
score them. Exit the box down wind then they can make a 180 to landing.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Tim<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net"
target="_blank" rel=nofollow>geobet4@verizon.net</a>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>From: George W.Kennie <<a href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net"
target="_blank" rel=nofollow>geobet4@verizon.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs<br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 4:44 PM</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=4 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'>
<div id=yiv380045516>I think that dropping the scoring of TOs and LGs
with the intent of reducing risk will be only minimally effective.
There are always going to be individuals who will experience
difficulty with crossing winds, turbulance, ineptitude, whatever, no matter
how many times they go around. I can think of individuals who would include
me in the group.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=4 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'>G.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:
none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'> <a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" target="_blank"
title="jnhiller@earthlink.net" rel=nofollow>J N Hiller</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com" target="_blank"
title="bob@toprudder.com" rel=nofollow>bob@toprudder.com</a> ; <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow>General pattern
discussion</a> </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Monday, March 02, 2009 3:13 PM</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle15><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You make a good
argument for dropping takeoff and landing scoring. I have aborted landings
more than once.</span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle15><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim</span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
rel=nofollow>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob Richards<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 02, 2009
10:28 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=578 style='width:433.5pt;
mso-cellspacing:0in;margin-left:39.75pt;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:inherit;color:black'>I'll say it here, JMHO. I personally
don't think takeoffs and landings should be judged. These are the
maneuvers that put the plane closest to the pilots/judges/spectators.
I've seen some bad takeoffs and landing approaches pushed to dangerous
situations when they would probably have been aborted had they not been
scored maneuvers. At the very least, the airplane is at risk. At the
most, people are at risk. I've had one plane fly behind my head at the
Nats (between myself, my caller, and the judges) during a landing when
the plane got away from the pilot during one such occurance. I've also
seen a plane slam into a person in the pits at full throttle, just after
lifting off the ground, when the plane first veered away from the pits
and the pilot forced the takeoff by kicking rudder to get it back on the
runway. At no point did he back off the throttle. In most situations such
as this, anyone would have aborted and started over, but because they are
being judged they keep on pushing a bad situation.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:inherit;color:black'>And, no, niether situation involved
someone in the Sportsman or Intermediate classes. These were both
contestants that had flown pattern for several years. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:inherit;color:black'>I thank god they don't judge takeoffs
and landings in IMAC.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:inherit;color:black'>JM2CW</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:inherit;color:black'>Bob R.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto'><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:inherit;color:black'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><geobet4@verizon.net></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>
<div id=yiv297695904>I don't feel the same way as John on the landing
maneuver being relegated to a non-skill element. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>All
aerobatic maneuvers that we perform competitively require that we
demonstrate to a judge that we have developed some precise degree of
control over the airframe under our command. To achieve this control
further requires intense concentration on the part of the pilot. I would
offer that there are many airborne maneuvers where the degree of
concentration required by the pilot are significantly lower than that
required to bring the airframe back into contact with terra firma and
demonstrate complete and confident control. This is a skill that is
worthy of reward in my viewpoint.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>G.
</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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