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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>George
I'm late this morning because I had to dig out my collection of old rulebooks to
check on the tail wheel first issue you refer to.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Yes
I suspect there were downgrades and accompanying discussion regarding rules
compliance about the time we started flying conventional gear aircraft.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here
is what I found:<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Prior
to the 1990-91 rulebook – [1988 – 1989 - P-62 – Landing – 2nd & 3rd sentences]
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=EmailStyle23><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>"The model flares smoothly to a nose-
high attitude, dissipating all flying speed, then smoothly touching the ground,
within the landing circle, with the main wheels first, with no bouncing or
changes in heading after touch down." "The nose wheel on a tricycle
gear should settle gently to the ground after a brief roll out."<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I
suspect in an era of long tail turnaround airplanes with short main gear (by
today's standards) tail first landings occurred often if slowed to a nose high
attitude, violating the "main wheels first" requirement intended to prevent
flying-on a tri-gear aircraft. Rules have always been subject to interpretation
as to literal meaning or intent. I actually remember some of the tail first discussions
but never got involved. At this point I should add that the NSRCA judge
certification program developed since and presented by volunteers has done a
superb job in clarify many interpretation questions. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here
is what the 1990-91 rulebook has – [P-66 – Landing – 3rd sentence] <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=EmailStyle23><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>"The nose wheel on a tricycle gear and
the tail wheel on a conventional gear (unless a '"3 point landing" of
main and tail wheel touching simultaneously is executed) should settle gently
to the ground after a brief roll out."<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This
sentence remained through the 2002 - 2004 AMA rulebook (last one I have) and can
probably be interpreted as disallowing a tail wheel first landing although it
was NOT listed as a downgrade. At this point I should add that it is
impractical if not impossible to list every conceivable rule violation as a
specific downgrade, although this one probably should have been since it identifies
and describes the 3 – point landing allowance for conventional gear aircraft. I
should also mention that nearly every rulebook has a change to the landing
description. This has been a nearly continuously debated issue for at least 20
years. This is all history now but an interesting look at where we came from.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As
always if a pilot or judge has a questions regarding rule clarification they
should bring them up during the pilots or judges meeting prior to the start of
competition.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>George W.Kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:52
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging Questions</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I'm
with you on the nose high / flying speed relationship. Somewhere in my
memory bank there's something regarding a downgrade if the tailwheel touches
down first, but I can no longer tell you if it's AMA or FAI related. My
problem is that my memory bank does not contain file folders.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>G.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" title="jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</a>
</span></font></div>
<font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Monday, March 02, 2009
6:58 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</span></font><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>No
frustration here. Flying season here is still about a month away.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I went to
the shop a while to adjust the struts (wing twist) on a new 1/4 scale PA-20
(Pacer) and it occurred to me that excess landing speed would likely violate
the nose high requirement (again subjective) prior to any roll out
consideration and should have already received a downgrade. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I will probably
get in trouble for this but here goes. Nose high / angle of attack v/s flying
speed as you know is relative to how much elevator is being held and throttle
setting. Only the pilot really knows if he could have or should have landed
slower, however there is no doubt if the tail wheel rolls on first.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have
landed with excessive speed many times before someone here suggested using one
of the sliders to set flying idle reserving the stick trim for absolute low
idle. If you roll it on gently and don't hit a bump it don't bounce and slows
nicely on grass, however asphalt is a different story.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>George W.Kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 02, 2009 1:50
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging Questions</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Jim,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I think I'm finally catching up to your thought process. Boy,
you must be frustrated !</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:
black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" title="jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</a>
</span></font></div>
<font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Monday, March 02, 2009
3:28 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</span></font><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>That's the
issue I was trying to open. "Flying Speed" = What? Judge perception I
guess! Call it like you see it until it's more defined or dropped. One could
always ask for a clarification during the pilot's and or judge's meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>George W.Kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 02, 2009 12:14
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging Questions</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Jim,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I finally see the light. I've been too focused on the line in the
PPP which is incomplete. Thinking that the word "stop" was the
crucial point it now becomes clear that the emphasis is really meant to be
focused on the word "or", and understanding that makes it clear
that,like Chris says, after the 10 meter roll it's fini ! </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>But my head is still fighting me. What if the aircraft at no time
slows below flying speed, comes in and makes a LZ touchdown and proceeds to
roll for 100 feet without becoming airborne or flipping over? Clarification? </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Jim? Chris? anybody?</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>G.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:115.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" title="jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</a>
</span></font></div>
<font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Monday, March 02, 2009
12:31 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</span></font><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi George and Bill. (More
have posted since I started this but here it is anyway)<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Here is the first paragraph
from AMA RCA-25. Probably not changed since I saved it on 2-3-09.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Landing: </span></font></b><font size=2
color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>The landing maneuver
will be scored in half point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver will start
two (2) meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly to a nose high
altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly touches the ground,
within the landing zone. The maneuver should be considered complete once the
plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10 meters or comes to a stop and
no further downgrades shall be applied after that point.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Looks like there is some
discrepancy here. We will probably here more on this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>"slowed below flying
speed <u>AND</u> rolled 10 meters" could be interpreted as a requirement
that the speed be below flying speed (subjective) within 10 meters. Thirty
years ago flying speed probably meant something but most modern pattern
airplanes are capable of flying speed without ground speed if the nose is high
enough, unless there is a documented distinction between flying and hovering.
Is landing with power greater than idle allowed? How much power can be used to
'drag it in nose high? Most can roll the tail wheel on before the mains, which
commits the airplane to "Below Flying Speed", at least without a bump
/ bounce.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>"10 meters <u>OR</u>
comes to a stop" would indicate that the landing is complete after the
10-meter roll out without having to come to a stop. If a stop were required I
would expect "AND" to be used.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have no opinion on this.
I just try to get a decent landing near the center and accept whatever score is
given. You should see some of the landings at a soaring contest where the pilot
if focused on maximum landing score.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Got to go, be back later.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>George W.Kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 02, 2009 8:15
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging Questions</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Bill,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>This is probably inaccurate, but I notice that noone else has
responded to your inquiry so just to prove that I have not learned my
lesson, here goes. </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>In the landing descriptor it states, " there is no down grade
if the model rolls to a stop within 15 meters". I think the
crucial word is STOP ! What does this mean to proper
execution? How many times have you seen a plane touch down
perfectly within one meter of the center line and then proceed to roll
perfectly straight down the center of the runway without a single bounce for a
distance of 150 feet? A little hot maybe, but to most observers, a beautiful
landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters" stipulation, it
would appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence. Sounds, to me, like
maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also control the approach airspeed so
that touchdown occurs just above stall speed controlling the rollout distance,
but maybe somebody will correct me on this. I think this would also cover stuff
like flipovers after the 15 meter rollout.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>If the pilot performs a landing and meets all the above
requirements and then encounters an obstacle, whether that be a hole or a
hummock or whatever, I would deem the execution faultless and rule "beyond
the pilot's control" and score a 10. Flipovers usually occur as a
result of either the plane being outside the landing zone or equipment malfunction
( stuck wheel e.t.c.) and would require discretionary judgement on the part of
the scorer.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>And yup, I agree, It's got to be a physical impossibility to enter
and exit a Split Esse at the same altitude. I think that needs
correcting. </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Of course, all this is my opinionated interpretation of matters
and should be so received.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=4
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>G.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net" title="billglaze@bellsouth.net">billglaze</a>
</span></font></div>
<font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:119.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca- discussion</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Sunday, March 01, 2009
4:30 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</span></font><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>At the risk
of starting another downwind turn discussion:</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>I've been
reading over the excellent PowerPoint presentation, and I'd like a question
answered that I've had for a long time.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>On landing,
if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is it an automatic zero? I've felt for
a long time that it should be, yet I've had people tell me "after 50 ft.
landing roll, we've completely lost interest in the airplane." It
can roll anywhere, do anything, and it doesn't affect the score, is their
idea. </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Also, if it
TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and then rolls immediately into what awaits,
(in some cases, a small canyon) is the landing zeroed? I've been called
for doing so once.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Secondly, in
reading the presentation for Intermediate, it states for the Split S: A
downgrade if the entry and exit are not at the same altitude. Seems to me
to be an error that slipped by, but I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes, it's
happened!)<G> I've been known to incorrectly read/interpret
also. Standing by for the more knowledgeable brains on the list!</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>thanks</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Bill Glaze</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA 2388</span></font><font
size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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auto;margin-left:159.0pt;text-align:center;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
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color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
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margin-left:159.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:155.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
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