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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Then, a touchdown in the LZ (mowed part of the runway)
when there isn't even enough room for a after-touchdown roll, wouldn't be a
downgrade? Not trying to be a Guardhouse Lawyer here, John, (you know me
better than that from our conversation) I've asked this question
before, (usually at a contest) and not gotten an answer. Thank Heaven,
most landings don't come under this nit-picking scrutiny, but I just want to be
able to defend my territory, whatever it may wind up to be.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bill </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jlkonn@hotmail.com href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com">John Konneker</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009 12:04
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial>I don't know...</FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial>I'm
just a low class no class guy trying to learn too.</FONT><BR><FONT
face=Arial>Are we confusing landing "area" with landing
"zone".</FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial>Again from the rulebook:</FONT><BR><FONT
size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"><STRONG>The landing zone shall be marked
by lines placed perpendicular across the runway and spaced 30 meters
apart</STRONG>. The width of the landing zone is normally the width of the
runway but in no case shall exceed 30 meters. </FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial>So
in your example of 300 ft that would be a landing "area" 100ft beyond the
"zone" in both directions. It seems the CD is
deviating</FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial>from the rules
unnecessarily. Be that as it may in my mind if he says the
entire length is the zone and you run off the face of the earth
</FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial>after that and flip over because there is no
"runway" I don't see a downgrade.</FONT><BR><FONT
face=Arial>JLK</FONT> <BR></FONT><BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: billglaze@bellsouth.net<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date:
Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:44:30 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>John, as a follow up, it isn't unusual for the LZ at
local contests to be the entire runway that's mowed. In some cases, that
can be from 300 ft. to 750 ft. (Yeah, I've seen that announced also by the CD
at the pilot's meeting)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>And, if it touches down in this huge LZ, rolls a few
feet, and goes outside in the tall grass, tipping over, (lets say) considering
the fact that it isn't a centered maneuver, what then? Believe me, I'm
not arguing; just getting a feel for some of the answers to these oft-seen
scenarios.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jlkonn@hotmail.com href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com">John
Konneker</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Cut and pasted from the AMA website this morning:<BR><B><FONT
size=2>Landing: </B></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"
size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size=2>The landing
maneuver will be scored in half point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver
will start two (2) meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly to a
nose high altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly touches the
ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver should be considered
<STRONG>complete once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10
meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied after
that point</STRONG>. <BR>The landing zone shall be marked by lines placed
perpendicular across the runway and spaced 30 meters apart. The width of the
landing zone is normally the width of the runway but in no case shall exceed
30 meters. <STRONG>Landing is not a centered maneuver and there is no
downgrade for displacement of the touchdown point left or right from center
as long as the landing is in the landing zone.</STRONG> If the touchdown is
within the runway but not in the landing zone it should be downgraded
proportionate to the distance outside the landing zone. The Contest Director
may designate any landing zone appropriate to the field if safety
considerations dictate. If the landing zone is anything other than standard
it should be thoroughly discussed with the pilots and judges before flying
is started and no downgrade shall be applied due to the touchdown in the
non-standard landing zone. <BR><FONT size=3>Emphasis added by me. This
of course for AMA classes.</FONT><BR>JLK<BR></FONT></FONT><BR> <BR>
<HR id=EC_stopSpelling>
From: geobet4@verizon.net<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date:
Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>This is probably inaccurate, but I notice that
noone else has responded to your inquiry so just to prove that I have
not learned my lesson, here goes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>In the landing descriptor it states, " there is
no down grade if the model rolls to a stop within 15 meters". I
think the crucial word is STOP ! What does this mean to proper
execution? How many times have you seen a plane touch down
perfectly within one meter of the center line and then proceed to roll
perfectly straight down the center of the runway without a single bounce for
a distance of 150 feet? A little hot maybe, but to most observers, a
beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters" stipulation, it
would appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence. Sounds, to me, like
maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also control the approach airspeed
so that touchdown occurs just above stall speed controlling the rollout
distance, but maybe somebody will correct me on this. I think this would
also cover stuff like flipovers after the 15 meter rollout.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>If the pilot performs a landing and meets
all the above requirements and then encounters an obstacle, whether that be
a hole or a hummock or whatever, I would deem the execution faultless and
rule "beyond the pilot's control" and score a 10. Flipovers usually
occur as a result of either the plane being outside the landing zone or
equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel e.t.c.) and would require discretionary
judgement on the part of the scorer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>And yup, I agree, It's got to be a physical
impossibility to enter and exit a Split Esse at the same altitude. I think
that needs correcting. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Of course, all this is my opinionated
interpretation of matters and should be so received.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net">billglaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca- discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>At the risk of starting another downwind turn
discussion:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I've been reading over the excellent PowerPoint
presentation, and I'd like a question answered that I've had for a long
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is it an
automatic zero? I've felt for a long time that it should be, yet
I've had people tell me "after 50 ft. landing roll, we've completely lost
interest in the airplane." It can roll anywhere, do anything, and it
doesn't affect the score, is their idea. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and then
rolls immediately into what awaits, (in some cases, a small canyon) is the
landing zeroed? I've been called for doing so once.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Secondly, in reading the presentation for Intermediate,
it states for the Split S: A downgrade if the entry and exit are not
at the same altitude. Seems to me to be an error that slipped by,
but I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes, it's happened!)<G>
I've been known to incorrectly read/interpret also. Standing by for
the more knowledgeable brains on the list!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>NSRCA 2388<BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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