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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>I'd much rather see take-offs and landings
be judged. What's the incentive of having a pilot learn how to learn a
proper (and safe) take-off and landing if there is no 10 to shoot for? And not a
0 or 10, but scored. Just because it wouldn't be scored doesn't make a pilot try
and make a safe take-off or landing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=timsautopro@yahoo.com href="mailto:timsautopro@yahoo.com">Tim
Taylor</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009 4:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings
and Takeoffs</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV>I agree, TO's and Landings shouldn't be judged. Add one turn around
and center maneuver to the classes that score them. Exit the box down
wind then they can make a 180 to landing.</DIV>
<DIV>Tim<BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 3/2/09, George W.Kennie <I><<A
href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">geobet4@verizon.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:
George W.Kennie <<A
href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">geobet4@verizon.net</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs<BR>To: "General pattern
discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday,
March 2, 2009, 4:44 PM<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I think that dropping the scoring
of TOs and LGs with the intent of reducing risk will be only
minimally effective. There are always going to be individuals who
will experience difficulty with crossing winds, turbulance,
ineptitude, whatever, no matter how many times they go around. I can
think of individuals who would include me in the group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>G.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jnhiller@earthlink.net href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net"
target=_blank rel=nofollow>J N Hiller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=bob@toprudder.com
href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>bob@toprudder.com</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009
3:13 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Landings and Takeoffs</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You make a good argument
for dropping takeoff and landing scoring. I have aborted landings
more than once.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob
Richards<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Monday, March 02, 2009 10:28 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landings and Takeoffs</SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">I'll
say it here, JMHO. I personally don't think takeoffs and
landings should be judged. These are the maneuvers that put the
plane closest to the pilots/judges/spectators. I've seen some
bad takeoffs and landing approaches pushed to dangerous
situations when they would probably have been aborted had they
not been scored maneuvers. At the very least, the airplane is at
risk. At the most, people are at risk. I've had one plane fly
behind my head at the Nats (between myself, my caller, and the
judges) during a landing when the plane got away from the pilot
during one such occurance. I've also seen a plane slam into a
person in the pits at full throttle, just after lifting off the
ground, when the plane first veered away from the pits and the
pilot forced the takeoff by kicking rudder to get it back on the
runway. At no point did he back off the throttle. In most
situations such as this, anyone would have aborted and started
over, but because they are being judged they keep on pushing a
bad situation.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">And,
no, niether situation involved someone in the Sportsman or
Intermediate classes. These were both contestants that had flown
pattern for several years. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">I
thank god they don't judge takeoffs and landings in
IMAC.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
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face=inherit color=black><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">JM2CW</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
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face=inherit color=black><SPAN
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<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">Bob
R.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"><BR><BR>---
On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 3/2/09, George
W.Kennie <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><geobet4@verizon.net></SPAN></I></SPAN></B>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<DIV id=yiv297695904>I don't feel the same way as John on the
landing maneuver being relegated to a non-skill element.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">All
aerobatic maneuvers that we perform competitively require that
we demonstrate to a judge that we have developed some precise
degree of control over the airframe under our command. To
achieve this control further requires intense concentration on
the part of the pilot. I would offer that there are many
airborne maneuvers where the degree of concentration required by
the pilot are significantly lower than that required to bring
the airframe back into contact with terra firma and demonstrate
complete and confident control. This is a skill that is worthy
of reward in my viewpoint.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">G.
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