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<DIV><FONT size=2>Jim:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>That's what we're trying to hash out here; just what is the
rule? Some questions abound; Chris straightened out some of the
stuff, but it appears from the differences here that a further definition may be
required; somebody mentioned next rules cycle. Sounds good to me.
Georgie had a good interpretation, looking at the anomalies, which should be,
and can be, eliminated, I feel. Chris, (and many others) also have been
helpful.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>BTW: did you get my check?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jaqfly@prodigy.net href="mailto:jaqfly@prodigy.net">Jim Quinn</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009 4:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">
<DIV>If you're rolling on the pavement at the Nats or on the grass at the
Black Dirt's runway there is a huge difference in the roll out. I say just
follow the rule.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jim Quinn<BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>
<HR SIZE=1>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> George W.Kennie <<A
href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">geobet4@verizon.net</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, March 2, 2009 12:22:40
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions<BR></FONT><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial># 2 screw-up !!!! It's not "roll to a stop
within 15 meters", it's 10 meters, but the "stop" is still the elementle
crux, I think. If it says " no downgrade if the model rolls to a stop
within 10 meters" doesn't that infer that if the model continues to roll
beyond that distance it becomews a downgradeable offence (1/2pt
+)?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>And if it's not a centered maneuver, where'd we come up
with the axiom " for maximum landing points, touchdown should occur <
2 meters either side of the centerline"? Is that FAI ?</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial>Did I make it up? Am I totally losing it? How the heck is anyone
expected to keep all this stuff straight?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jlkonn@hotmail.com href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com">John Konneker</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Cut and pasted from the AMA website this morning:<BR><B><FONT
size=2>Landing: </B></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman"
size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size=2>The landing
maneuver will be scored in half point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver
will start two (2) meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly to a
nose high altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly touches the
ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver should be considered
<STRONG>complete once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10
meters or comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied after
that point</STRONG>. <BR>The landing zone shall be marked by lines placed
perpendicular across the runway and spaced 30 meters apart. The width of the
landing zone is normally the width of the runway but in no case shall exceed
30 meters. <STRONG>Landing is not a centered maneuver and there is no
downgrade for displacement of the touchdown point left or right from center
as long as the landing is in the landing zone.</STRONG> If the touchdown is
within the runway but not in the landing zone it should be downgraded
proportionate to the distance outside the landing zone. The Contest Director
may designate any landing zone appropriate to the field if safety
considerations dictate. If the landing zone is anything other than standard
it should be thoroughly discussed with the pilots and judges before flying
is started and no downgrade shall be applied due to the touchdown in the
non-standard landing zone. <BR><FONT size=3>Emphasis added by me. This
of course for AMA classes.</FONT><BR>JLK<BR></FONT></FONT><BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: geobet4@verizon.net<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Date:
Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions<BR><BR>
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</STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>This is probably inaccurate, but I notice that
noone else has responded to your inquiry so just to prove that I have
not learned my lesson, here goes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>In the landing descriptor it states, " there is
no down grade if the model rolls to a stop within 15 meters". I
think the crucial word is STOP ! What does this mean to proper
execution? How many times have you seen a plane touch down
perfectly within one meter of the center line and then proceed to roll
perfectly straight down the center of the runway without a single bounce for
a distance of 150 feet? A little hot maybe, but to most observers, a
beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters" stipulation, it
would appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence. Sounds, to me, like
maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also control the approach airspeed
so that touchdown occurs just above stall speed controlling the rollout
distance, but maybe somebody will correct me on this. I think this would
also cover stuff like flipovers after the 15 meter rollout.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>If the pilot performs a landing and meets
all the above requirements and then encounters an obstacle, whether that be
a hole or a hummock or whatever, I would deem the execution faultless and
rule "beyond the pilot's control" and score a 10. Flipovers usually
occur as a result of either the plane being outside the landing zone or
equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel e.t.c.) and would require discretionary
judgement on the part of the scorer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>And yup, I agree, It's got to be a physical
impossibility to enter and exit a Split Esse at the same altitude. I think
that needs correcting. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Of course, all this is my opinionated
interpretation of matters and should be so received.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=billglaze@bellsouth.net href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net"
target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net">billglaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca- discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>At the risk of starting another downwind turn
discussion:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I've been reading over the excellent PowerPoint
presentation, and I'd like a question answered that I've had for a long
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is it an
automatic zero? I've felt for a long time that it should be, yet
I've had people tell me "after 50 ft. landing roll, we've completely lost
interest in the airplane." It can roll anywhere, do anything, and it
doesn't affect the score, is their idea. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and then
rolls immediately into what awaits, (in some cases, a small canyon) is the
landing zeroed? I've been called for doing so once.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Secondly, in reading the presentation for Intermediate,
it states for the Split S: A downgrade if the entry and exit are not
at the same altitude. Seems to me to be an error that slipped by,
but I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes, it's happened!)<G>
I've been known to incorrectly read/interpret also. Standing by for
the more knowledgeable brains on the list!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>NSRCA 2388<BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<HR>
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