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Bill:<br>
While they touched down in the landing zone (makes them eligible for
maximum points) they did not <br>
1. roll to a stop (nosed over)<br>
2. travel 10 meters below flying speed<br>
Was it a zero? That's up to the judge but I would agree with you that
it was not eligible for maximum points (scored without downgrade). I
can't imagine that the intent of the CD was to give tacit approval for
running off the end of the runway and have the pilot expect to receive
a possible maximum score - or even a good score. Running off the end
shows a lack of control over the model and does not demonstrate
superior skills.<br>
<br>
So...it was you that gave me that zero!!!! LOL <span
class="moz-smiley-s1"><span> :-) </span></span><br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
<br>
billglaze wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:01ce01c99b65$01982480$6101a8c0@glazep4xpcst"
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<div><font size="2">O.K. Chris, then: If the airplane touches down
in the last 2 meters of the Liz, and the LZ is the entire mowed portion
of the field, (as is commonly the case in local contests,) and rolls
those 2 meters, leaves the LZ, (remember, it has TOUCHED DOWN IN THE
LZ) AND LEAVES THE LZ, noses over, then what? This happened at one of
our D2 contests, (in fact, I believe you were there, as I recall, but
certainly not judging this round.) I zeroed it, and got disagreed with.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Bill</font></div>
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="cjm767driver@hotmail.com"
href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">Chris Moon</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, March 02, 2009 1:14 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Ok, <br>
<br>
1. to get possible max points, the plane must touch down in the landing
zone<br>
2. once the plane is below flying speed and has traveled 10 meters on
the ground, judges close your eyes...you are done.<br>
3. there is no inference that you MUST travel 10 meters nor stop within
10 meters, it says there is no downgrade if you travel less than 10
meters.<br>
If it rolls 11 meters then explodes, it is no downgrade. If it
stops at 9 meters and then the wind blows it over, again no downgrade<br>
<br>
Rule book paste:<br>
<big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><b><font size="2"><big><font
size="2"><big><big>The maneuver should be considered <strong>complete
once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10 meters or
comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied after that
point</strong>. </big></big></font></big></font></b></font></big><br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
George W.Kennie wrote:
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<div><font face="Arial"># 2 screw-up !!!! It's not "roll to a
stop within 15 meters", it's 10 meters, but the "stop" is still the
elementle crux, I think. If it says " no downgrade if the model rolls
to a stop within 10 meters" doesn't that infer that if the model
continues to roll beyond that distance it becomews a downgradeable
offence (1/2pt +)?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">And if it's not a centered maneuver,
where'd we come up with the axiom " for maximum landing points,
touchdown should occur < 2 meters either side of the centerline"?
Is that FAI ?</font> <font face="Arial">Did I make it up? Am I totally
losing it? How the heck is anyone expected to keep all this stuff
straight?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
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<div
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="jlkonn@hotmail.com" href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Konneker</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Discussion
List</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32 AM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Cut and pasted from the AMA website this morning:<br>
<b><font size="2">Landing: </font></b><font
face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size="2"><font
face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size="2">The landing maneuver
will be scored in half point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver will
start two (2) meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly to a
nose high altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly touches
the ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver should be considered <strong>complete
once the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10 meters or
comes to a stop and no further downgrades shall be applied after that
point</strong>. <br>
The landing zone shall be marked by lines placed perpendicular across
the runway and spaced 30 meters apart. The width of the landing zone is
normally the width of the runway but in no case shall exceed 30 meters.
<strong>Landing is not a centered maneuver and there is no
downgrade for displacement of the touchdown point left or right from
center as long as the landing is in the landing zone.</strong> If the
touchdown is within the runway but not in the landing zone it should be
downgraded proportionate to the distance outside the landing zone. The
Contest Director may designate any landing zone appropriate to the
field if safety considerations dictate. If the landing zone is anything
other than standard it should be thoroughly discussed with the pilots
and judges before flying is started and no downgrade shall be applied
due to the touchdown in the non-standard landing zone. <br>
<font size="3">Emphasis added by me. This of course for AMA
classes.</font><br>
JLK<br>
</font></font><br>
<br>
<hr id="stopSpelling"> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net">geobet4@verizon.net</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions<br>
<br>
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<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Bill,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">This is probably inaccurate,
but I notice that noone else has responded to your inquiry so just to
prove that I have not learned my lesson, here goes. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">In the landing descriptor it
states, " there is no down grade if the model rolls to a stop within 15
meters". I think the crucial word is STOP ! What does this mean to
proper execution? How many times have you seen a plane touch down
perfectly within one meter of the center line and then proceed to roll
perfectly straight down the center of the runway without a single
bounce for a distance of 150 feet? A little hot maybe, but to most
observers, a beautiful landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters"
stipulation, it would appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence.
Sounds, to me, like maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also
control the approach airspeed so that touchdown occurs just above stall
speed controlling the rollout distance, but maybe somebody will correct
me on this. I think this would also cover stuff like flipovers after
the 15 meter rollout.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">If the pilot performs a
landing and meets all the above requirements and then encounters an
obstacle, whether that be a hole or a hummock or whatever, I would deem
the execution faultless and rule "beyond the pilot's control" and score
a 10. Flipovers usually occur as a result of either the plane being
outside the landing zone or equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel e.t.c.)
and would require discretionary judgement on the part of the scorer.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">And yup, I agree, It's got to
be a physical impossibility to enter and exit a Split Esse at the same
altitude. I think that needs correcting. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">Of course, all this is my
opinionated interpretation of matters and should be so received.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="4">G.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
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<div
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
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<a title="billglaze@bellsouth.net"
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net" moz-do-not-send="true">billglaze</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-
discussion</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="2">At the risk of starting another downwind
turn discussion:</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">I've been reading over the excellent
PowerPoint presentation, and I'd like a question answered that I've had
for a long time.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY
TIME is it an automatic zero? I've felt for a long time that it should
be, yet I've had people tell me "after 50 ft. landing roll, we've
completely lost interest in the airplane." It can roll anywhere, do
anything, and it doesn't affect the score, is their idea. </font></div>
<div><font size="2">Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing
zone, and then rolls immediately into what awaits, (in some cases, a
small canyon) is the landing zeroed? I've been called for doing so
once.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Secondly, in reading the presentation for
Intermediate, it states for the Split S: A downgrade if the entry and
exit are not at the same altitude. Seems to me to be an error that
slipped by, but I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes, it's
happened!)<G> I've been known to incorrectly read/interpret
also. Standing by for the more knowledgeable brains on the list!</font></div>
<div><font size="2">thanks</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Bill Glaze</font></div>
<div><font size="2">NSRCA 2388<br>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
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