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<DIV><FONT size=2>Chris:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks, there are several nuances that are making themselves
visible to me. I hope others find this discussion as
valuable.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>And no, I didn't give you a downgrade on your landing; in
fact,I believe you got a very good score on the round I judged.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I did, however, have to give you a Zero on your Double Weedon;
pretty sloppy. And, I don't even know WHAT it is! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill</FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cjm767driver@hotmail.com href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">Chris
Moon</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 02, 2009 1:49
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging
Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Bill:<BR>While they touched down in the landing zone (makes
them eligible for maximum points) they did not <BR>1. roll to a stop (nosed
over)<BR>2. travel 10 meters below flying speed<BR> Was it a zero?
That's up to the judge but I would agree with you that it was not eligible for
maximum points (scored without downgrade). I can't imagine that the
intent of the CD was to give tacit approval for running off the end of the
runway and have the pilot expect to receive a possible maximum score - or even
a good score. Running off the end shows a lack of control over the model
and does not demonstrate superior skills.<BR><BR>So...it was you that gave me
that zero!!!! LOL <SPAN class=moz-smiley-s1><SPAN>:-)
</SPAN></SPAN><BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR><BR>billglaze wrote:
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<DIV><FONT size=2>O.K. Chris, then: If the airplane touches down in
the last 2 meters of the Liz, and the LZ is the entire mowed portion of the
field, (as is commonly the case in local contests,) and rolls those 2
meters, leaves the LZ, (remember, it has TOUCHED DOWN IN THE LZ) AND LEAVES
THE LZ, noses over, then what? This happened at one of our
D2 contests, (in fact, I believe you were there, as I recall, but
certainly not judging this round.) I zeroed it, and got disagreed
with.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cjm767driver@hotmail.com href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Chris Moon</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, March 02, 2009 1:14 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ok, <BR><BR>1. to get possible max points, the plane must
touch down in the landing zone<BR>2. once the plane is below flying speed
and has traveled 10 meters on the ground, judges close your eyes...you are
done.<BR>3. there is no inference that you MUST travel 10 meters nor stop
within 10 meters, it says there is no downgrade if you travel less than 10
meters.<BR> If it rolls 11 meters then explodes, it is
no downgrade. If it stops at 9 meters and then the wind blows it
over, again no downgrade<BR><BR>Rule book paste:<BR><BIG><FONT
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><B><FONT size=2><BIG><FONT
size=2><BIG><BIG>The maneuver should be considered <STRONG>complete once
the plane has slowed below flying speed and rolled 10 meters or comes to a
stop and no further downgrades shall be applied after that point</STRONG>.
</BIG></BIG></FONT></BIG></FONT></B></FONT></BIG><BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR>George
W.Kennie wrote:
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial># 2 screw-up !!!! It's not "roll to a
stop within 15 meters", it's 10 meters, but the "stop" is still
the elementle crux, I think. If it says " no downgrade if the
model rolls to a stop within 10 meters" doesn't that infer that if
the model continues to roll beyond that distance it becomews a
downgradeable offence (1/2pt +)?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>And if it's not a centered maneuver, where'd we
come up with the axiom " for maximum landing points, touchdown
should occur < 2 meters either side of the centerline"? Is that
FAI ?</FONT> <FONT face=Arial>Did I make it up? Am I totally losing
it? How the heck is anyone expected to keep all this stuff
straight?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jlkonn@hotmail.com href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Konneker</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Discussion List</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, March 02, 2009 11:32 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Cut and pasted from the AMA website this
morning:<BR><B><FONT size=2>Landing: </FONT></B><FONT
face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman,Times New Roman" size=2>The landing maneuver
will be scored in half point increments from 10 to 0. The maneuver
will start two (2) meters from the ground. The model flares smoothly
to a nose high altitude, dissipating flying speed, and then smoothly
touches the ground, within the landing zone. The maneuver should be
considered <STRONG>complete once the plane has slowed below flying
speed and rolled 10 meters or comes to a stop and no further
downgrades shall be applied after that point</STRONG>. <BR>The landing
zone shall be marked by lines placed perpendicular across the runway
and spaced 30 meters apart. The width of the landing zone is normally
the width of the runway but in no case shall exceed 30 meters.
<STRONG>Landing is not a centered maneuver and there is no downgrade
for displacement of the touchdown point left or right from center as
long as the landing is in the landing zone.</STRONG> If the touchdown
is within the runway but not in the landing zone it should be
downgraded proportionate to the distance outside the landing zone. The
Contest Director may designate any landing zone appropriate to the
field if safety considerations dictate. If the landing zone is
anything other than standard it should be thoroughly discussed with
the pilots and judges before flying is started and no downgrade shall
be applied due to the touchdown in the non-standard landing zone.
<BR><FONT size=3>Emphasis added by me. This of course for AMA
classes.</FONT><BR>JLK<BR></FONT></FONT><BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:geobet4@verizon.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">geobet4@verizon.net</A><BR>To: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date:
Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:15:23 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging Questions<BR><BR>
<STYLE>
</STYLE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Bill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>This is probably inaccurate, but I notice
that noone else has responded to your inquiry so just to prove
that I have not learned my lesson, here goes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>In the landing descriptor it states, "
there is no down grade if the model rolls to a stop within 15
meters". I think the crucial word is STOP !
What does this mean to proper execution? How many times
have you seen a plane touch down perfectly within one meter of the
center line and then proceed to roll perfectly straight down the
center of the runway without a single bounce for a distance of 150
feet? A little hot maybe, but to most observers, a beautiful
landing. In light of the "Stop within 15 meters" stipulation, it would
appear that this becomes a downgradeable offence. Sounds, to me, like
maybe it's the pilot's responsibility to also control the approach
airspeed so that touchdown occurs just above stall speed controlling
the rollout distance, but maybe somebody will correct me on this. I
think this would also cover stuff like flipovers after the 15 meter
rollout.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>If the pilot performs a landing and
meets all the above requirements and then encounters an obstacle,
whether that be a hole or a hummock or whatever, I would deem the
execution faultless and rule "beyond the pilot's control" and score a
10. Flipovers usually occur as a result of either the plane
being outside the landing zone or equipment malfunction ( stuck wheel
e.t.c.) and would require discretionary judgement on the part of the
scorer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>And yup, I agree, It's got to be a
physical impossibility to enter and exit a Split Esse at the same
altitude. I think that needs correcting. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Of course, all this is my opinionated
interpretation of matters and should be so received.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:billglaze@bellsouth.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">billglaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca- discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[NSRCA-discussion] Judging Questions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>At the risk of starting another downwind turn
discussion:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I've been reading over the excellent PowerPoint
presentation, and I'd like a question answered that I've had for a
long time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>On landing, if the plane overturns AT ANY TIME is
it an automatic zero? I've felt for a long time that it should
be, yet I've had people tell me "after 50 ft. landing roll, we've
completely lost interest in the airplane." It can roll
anywhere, do anything, and it doesn't affect the score, is their
idea. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Also, if it TOUCHES DOWN in the landing zone, and
then rolls immediately into what awaits, (in some cases, a small
canyon) is the landing zeroed? I've been called for doing so
once.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Secondly, in reading the presentation for
Intermediate, it states for the Split S: A downgrade if the
entry and exit are not at the same altitude. Seems to me to be
an error that slipped by, but I've been wrong before. (Honest; yes,
it's happened!)<G> I've been known to incorrectly
read/interpret also. Standing by for the more knowledgeable
brains on the list!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>NSRCA 2388<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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