<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Geez Ron. Look what you started.. Don't you know by now that you can't talk about electrics??? Some people get their feelings hurt. <img src="http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif"><img src="http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif"><img src="http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"><img src="http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif"> <br>The only place it's sort of allowed is in the Electric Pattern forum on RCU. <br><br>I don't understand why it's such an issue anymore. Glow-Electric.. Both are here to stay! Same planes, different motors. Who cares? Not me!!!! Just fly the dang plane! And have fun doing it!!!! All this mumbo-jumbo is nonsense. Fly what you like, but don't hate on someone else for flying what they like. If you are serious about competing, the scores are what matter in the long run. And if you are good
enough, you will get them no matter what you fly. I'm pretty confident that the top guys could fly a Piper Cub and beat most of us. lol<br><br>Matt, this isn't intended at you, your's is just the last email and I hit the reply button bro.. <img src="http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/30.gif"><br><br><div><strong><em><font color="#0000bf" face="comic sans ms" size="3">Chris </font></em></strong></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 2/10/09, Matthew Frederick <i><mjfrederick@cox.net></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">From: Matthew Frederick <mjfrederick@cox.net><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...wasArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem<br>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 5:25 PM<br><br><div id="yiv950622543">
<style></style>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Hahaha... Maybe for those who don't know how to
maintain their own engines... Me, I just choose not to loan money to the
in-laws. I've been running 140 DZ's and FZ's for 3 years now with no problems
whatsoever. I even assembled a complete 140 FZ at the field in 20
minutes using spare parts a friend gave me... back-flipped to start on the
very first try, runs like a top.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Matt</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="khoard@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">Keith Hoard</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:02
PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Electric/IC ...wasArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem</div>
<div><br></div>I don't look at a YS engine as an investment . . . more like
the "loan" you make to one of your in-laws who "promises" to pay you back . .
.<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Ron Van Putte <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Matt
- I disagree with part of your statement #1. I like electrics and I
love the smell of burning nitro too.<br><br>One of my fondest memories is
going to contests up in Ohio, Michigan and Indiana with Don Lowe in his old
Pontiac station wagon, which had the aroma of castor oil, that came from the
fuel that had dripped on and seeped into the carpet in the back.<br><br>I
totally agree with #2.<br><font color="#888888"><br>Ron</font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br>On Feb 10, 2009, at 5:20 PM, Matthew Frederick
wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I'm
afraid I must take issue with two of your statements:<br>1) I'm not afraid
of electric, I just don't like it. Part of what I like about the hobby is
the engines, I love the smell of burning nitro in the morning, smells like
victory<br>2) There's no such thing as too many YS engines to those who
like them<br><br>Matt<br>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ferrell"
<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnferrell@earthlink.net">johnferrell@earthlink.net</a>><br>To: "General pattern
discussion" <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Sent: Tuesday,
February 10, 2009 10:47 AM<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC
...was ArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem<br><br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">It
is an interesting question for sure...<br>Can you think of any other
form of aviation where empty weight is more important that Gross or take
off weight?<br>Of course one cannot blame the IC fans for being afraid
of electric technology.<br><br>Personally, the bad news is that the new
knee joints I had installed last year are not permitting me to squat or
kneel. It is tough to deal with tending an IC powered airplane with that
limitation.<br>The good news is that electrics do not appear to require
the operator to squat/kneel.<br><br>Unfortunately there remains the
problem of recovering the investment of too many YS engines and the
accompanying airplanes...<br><br>John Ferrell W8CCW<br><br>"All
that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Edmund Burke<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</a><br><br><br>----- Original Message
----- From: "Ron Van Putte" <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</a>><br>To: "General pattern
discussion" <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Sent: Monday,
February 09, 2009 5:03 PM<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC
...was Arming Plug/ReceptacleProblem<br><br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I
beg to differ. The rules are already slanted to favor IC: the
way the airplanes are weighed. IC airplanes are weighed
without fuel; electric airplanes are weighed with fuel
(batteries) and both may no more than 5 kilograms. OMG,
here we go again!<br><br>Ron<br><br>On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:54 PM, James
Oddino wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I've
been at this longer than most and have known from the
beginning that the propulsion system is the key to winning in
Pattern competition. It can also be the most frustrating due
to constantly changing conditions. I found that the gas
engines with spark ignition were a lot more consistent than
glow and that reduced the frustration. I have more recently
convinced myself that electric is the least frustrating.
A few folks have gone back to glow after playing with
electric to get more power for windy conditions. We are
now getting close to getting more than enough out of electric
systems (3 to 4 HP?) and when that happens we won't have these
discussions anymore. However, before that happens, the rules
will probably be changed to favor IC.<br><br>Jim<br><br><br>On Feb
9, 2009, at 12:39 PM, Jerry Voth wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I've
been lurking for a long time and after reading all the things that
one needs to do to successfully fly electric, it makes one
wonder how things would be if electrics were the norm from
the beginning of powered R/C models. It might go like
this;<br><br>Hey guys, I just bought this little IC engine and I
tried it on one of my Pattern models and it works really
well. "Look what it will do;<br>1. It has just as much power
as our electric motors.<br>2. The only batteries you need are for
the flight pack, glow igniter and the electric starter if
you don't like to flip by hand.<br>3. All you have to do is pump
fuel into the tank, spin the engine with the starter and
fly.The tail gets a little oily, but what the heck, it's
fairly easy to clean up.(Switching the radio on first is a
given.)<br>4. You don't have to haul a generator or an extra car
battery around to charge motor batteries."<br><br>Please
don't take this the wrong way. It is tongue in cheek and
just an observation. I also have too much time on my hands
these days.<br><br>JJV<br>----- Original Message ----- From:
"Jay Marshall" <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:lightfoot@sc.rr.com">lightfoot@sc.rr.com</a>><br>To: "'General pattern
discussion'" <nsrca-<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:discussion@lists.nsrca.org">discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Sent: Monday,
February 09, 2009 1:50 PM<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem<br><br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">A
100 ohm resistor may be enough to charge the caps and make the
ESC<br>"active". Bad idea...<br><br>Jay
Marshall<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>[mailto:<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On
Behalf Of Ron Van Putte<br>Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009
1:14 PM<br>To: General pattern discussion<br>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem<br><br>Good.
I will try it. What wattage 100 ohm resistor?
Let's see,<br>doesn't sustained power equal voltage
squared, divided by the<br>resistance? If so, 42 squared,
divided by 100 is 17.64 watts.<br>That's probably overkill,
since the current surge is transitory. How<br>about a 100
ohm, 10 watt resistor?<br><br>Just thought of something:
With the 100 ohm resistor across the<br>arming plug
receptacle, won't the ESC be on whenever the batteries<br>are
plugged into the circuit?<br><br>BTW, what about Castle
Creation's statement that the "spark is
your<br>friend'?<br><br>Ron<br><br>On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:55 AM,
James Oddino wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Put
a 100 ohm resistor across the arming plug receptacle.
Then the<br>capacitors in the ESC will charge without a
spark as you connect<br>the batteries. When you connect
the arming plug, no spark.<br><br>Jim<br><br><br>On Feb 9,
2009, at 8:08 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I
have a problem which I am sure many other E-powered
airplane<br>owners have that I'd like to solve. I use
an arming plug to<br>connect the two 5S Lipo packs to the
ESC. On initial contact of<br>the arming plug with the
receptacle, there's a big spark thrown.<br>Eventually the
contacts on the arming plug and receptacle get<br>burned to
the point where the electrical contact is very
bad.<br>Yesterday I had to land my airplane deadstick
because (I think)<br>the ESC saw what it thought was low
voltage out of the battery<br>that was actually due to the
burned arming plug/receptacle<br>contacts. BTW, I am
using high-amp Anderson Power Pole<br>connectors, which are
probably more susceptible to having the<br>contacts burned
than would Deans Ultra connectors.<br><br>I have thought
about putting a BIG capacitor in parallel with the<br>arming
plug, that would damp the initial current surge
which<br>causes the spark. The capacitor could be
removed before flight.<br>However, I'm wondering if there's
a more elegant solution.<br><br>Ron Van
Putte<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion
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