<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><P>Should have said the 8-sided loop is drawn with dashed horizontal lines, sorry about that!</P>
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<P><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: jtkeiser@comcast.net<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 1:14:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<BR><BR></P>
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<P>Troy,</P>
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<P>I believe the critera for solid or dashed lines in Aresti diagrams is the wing's angle of attack (AOA). In most instances its the same as G load, but there are zero G situations where its not clear, eg, the vertical down line after a spin. Here you use the spin entry AOA; upright spin-solid line, inverted spin-dashed line. Same for a push to vertical from inverted, say for a half sq loop up, the vertical line (zero G) would be dashed. </P>
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<P>The 8-sided loop from inverted should be drawn as you say; solid horizontal lines since you're holding neg AOA, and solid on the other 7 sides since you're pulling positive AOA on all these. The vertical lines (ideally zero G) are solid because the entry was a pull (pos AOA).</P>
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<P>Jack</P>
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<P><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Troy Newman" <troy@troynewman.net><BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 10:11:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<BR><BR></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Scott,</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Actually if you look at the explanation of Aresti page in your rule book…look at the figure 9 it’s the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> one down on the right column. This has negative then positive elements.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">It shows that the 8 sided loop portion should be solid while the entry and exit lines are dashed.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">To define it as it is in the Aresti Catalog a solid line is positive G’s while a broken or dashed line is negative G’s. You can be inverted and still be carrying positive G’s…Look at the loop. Or even the outside loop from upright entry just above the figure 9. This is how it should be depicted per the Aresti rules. It’s a polygon loop that is positive G from an inverted entry.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">In the 8 sided loop the radii are all positive G’s and hence should be solid. </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">We interpret upright vs inverted but this is really not the case. It has to do with the G load on the airframe and in the case of vertical lines the G load used in the corner.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">It’s all kinda subjective a little. After all the 45 degree inverted line the first leg of the 8 sided is negative G but the corner to get there is positive. However on the figure 9 I referenced the radius to get to the vertical downline is negative G but the downline is drawn as positive G since the bottom radius to pull out is positive.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Personal preference would probably decide, either one works for the intent. It’s not like you can come from the top down any other way than positive corners. It’s just a symbol that is short hand for the figure. There is not a better way to short hand the figures and Aresti is the universal standard. </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I think based on my copy of the official Aresti Catalog from 2007 I would say the polygon loop should be solid line. This is AMA pattern and Aresti carries zero weight in the judging of the maneuver. In AMA only the worded descriptor has any judging weight. </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">In F3A the Aresti is by definition EQUAL to the word description of the figure. Especially since the unknown catalog has zero worded descriptors and all Aresti figures. Many folks get this confused. Aresti was added to the AMA rule book in order to eliminate those hard to produce ribbon drawings and go to a standard that is universally recognized around the world for aerobatics. It was one or the other for a symbol or a picture. Aresti symbols have a reason to be there and are graphically easier to reproduce.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Troy</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>adriancwong@earthlink.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 02, 2009 7:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B> homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com; General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">That's an eight sided loop<BR><BR>Adrian<BR><BR></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">-----Original Message----- <BR>From: krishlan fitzsimmons <BR>Sent: Feb 2, 2009 6:31 PM <BR>To: General pattern discussion <BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'inherit','serif'">Where ever it is inverted is should be dashed lines. Upright is solid.. <BR><BR>Doesn't seem right to me. </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #0000bf; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Chris </SPAN></B></EM><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'inherit','serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'inherit','serif'"><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 2/2/09, Scott Smith <I><js.smith@verizon.net></I></B> wrote:</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'inherit','serif'">From: Scott Smith <js.smith@verizon.net><BR>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<BR>To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:17 PM</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Is Figure 8 of the 09 Master’s schedule drawn correctly? Entering inverted from the top, you’re pulling pos G’s through the maneuver therefore it should be a solid line…no? </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></P>
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