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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks Jack. After all the time you’ve spent in the cockpit
flying the IAC stuff, I would differ to your judgment anytime.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hey you coming to the PHX contest in a couple weeks?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Spoke to Robert over this past weekend and he said the usual
crew was expected from Santa Fe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>jtkeiser@comcast.net<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Should have said
the 8-sided loop is drawn with dashed horizontal lines, sorry about that!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: jtkeiser@comcast.net<br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 1:14:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Troy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I believe the
critera for solid or dashed lines in Aresti diagrams is the wing's angle of
attack (AOA). In most instances its the same as G load, but there are zero G
situations where its not clear, eg, the vertical down line after a spin. Here
you use the spin entry AOA; upright spin-solid line, inverted spin-dashed line.
Same for a push to vertical from inverted, say for a half sq loop up, the
vertical line (zero G) would be dashed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The 8-sided loop
from inverted should be drawn as you say; solid horizontal lines since you're
holding neg AOA, and solid on the other 7 sides since you're pulling positive
AOA on all these. The vertical lines (ideally zero G) are solid because the
entry was a pull (pos AOA).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jack<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Troy Newman" <troy@troynewman.net><br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 10:11:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Scott,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Actually if you look at the explanation of Aresti page in your
rule book…look at the figure 9 it’s the 3<sup>rd</sup> one down on the right
column. This has negative then positive elements.</span><span style='color:
black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It shows that the 8 sided loop portion should be solid while the
entry and exit lines are dashed.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>To define it as it is in the Aresti Catalog a solid line is
positive G’s while a broken or dashed line is negative G’s. You can be inverted
and still be carrying positive G’s…Look at the loop. Or even the outside
loop from upright entry just above the figure 9. This is how it should be
depicted per the Aresti rules. It’s a polygon loop that is positive G from an
inverted entry.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In the 8 sided loop the radii are all positive G’s and hence
should be solid. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We interpret upright vs inverted but this is really not the
case. It has to do with the G load on the airframe and in the case of vertical
lines the G load used in the corner.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It’s all kinda subjective a little. After all the 45 degree
inverted line the first leg of the 8 sided is negative G but the corner to get
there is positive. However on the figure 9 I referenced the radius to get
to the vertical downline is negative G but the downline is drawn as positive G
since the bottom radius to pull out is positive.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Personal preference would probably decide, either one works for
the intent. It’s not like you can come from the top down any other way than
positive corners. It’s just a symbol that is short hand for the figure.
There is not a better way to short hand the figures and Aresti is the universal
standard. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think based on my copy of the official Aresti Catalog from
2007 I would say the polygon loop should be solid line. This is AMA pattern and
Aresti carries zero weight in the judging of the maneuver. In AMA only the
worded descriptor has any judging weight. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In F3A the Aresti is by definition EQUAL to the word description
of the figure. Especially since the unknown catalog has zero worded descriptors
and all Aresti figures. Many folks get this confused. Aresti was added to
the AMA rule book in order to eliminate those hard to produce ribbon drawings
and go to a standard that is universally recognized around the world for
aerobatics. It was one or the other for a symbol or a picture. Aresti symbols
have a reason to be there and are graphically easier to reproduce.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Troy</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>adriancwong@earthlink.net<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 02, 2009 7:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>That's an eight sided loop<br>
<br>
Adrian</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message----- <br>
From: krishlan fitzsimmons <br>
Sent: Feb 2, 2009 6:31 PM <br>
To: General pattern discussion <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;font-size-adjust: inherit;
font-stretch: inherit;-x-system-font: none'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"inherit","serif";color:black'>Where ever it is inverted is
should be dashed lines. Upright is solid.. <br>
<br>
Doesn't seem right to me. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#0000BF'>Chris </span></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"inherit","serif";
color:black'><br>
<br>
--- On <b>Mon, 2/2/09, Scott Smith <i><js.smith@verizon.net></i></b>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"inherit","serif";color:black'>From: Scott Smith <js.smith@verizon.net><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<br>
To: "'General pattern discussion'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:17 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=yiv1483487725>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Is
Figure 8 of the 09 Master’s schedule drawn correctly? Entering inverted
from the top, you’re pulling pos G’s through the maneuver therefore it should
be a solid line…no? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><img
width=365 height=176 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:1.3285596854@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span><o:p></o:p></pre></td>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>
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