<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"
xmlns:ns0="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--a:link
{mso-style-priority:99;}
span.MSOHYPERLINK
{mso-style-priority:99;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;}
span.HTMLPREFORMATTEDCHAR
{mso-style-priority:99;}
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:inherit;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:black;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{font-family:Consolas;}
span.emailstyle171
{font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=black id=compText>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Troy</st1:place></st1:City>, especially on the FAI reference. (I
completely understand now why Georgie was told “Aresti takes precedent”
as it was in FAI context…I just wish it stated in the absence of
descriptions!)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Another question on FAI scoring…missed
point rolls:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If points are not visible or
badly-defined during a point roll, or there are more than the required number
of points, the manoeuvre is downgraded using the 1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>point/15 degree rule.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>How exactly should this get applied?
Missed point in 2 pt roll: -10, missed point in 4 pt roll: - 6, missed point in
8 pt roll: -3?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And I’m not quite sure how to apply
1/15 on extra points...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Troy Newman<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 02, 2009
10:12 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Aresti Figures</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Actually if you look
at the explanation of Aresti page in your rule book…look at the figure 9
it’s the 3<sup>rd</sup> one down on the right column. This has negative
then positive elements.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>It shows that the 8
sided loop portion should be solid while the entry and exit lines are dashed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>To define it as it
is in the Aresti Catalog a solid line is positive G’s while a broken or
dashed line is negative G’s. You can be inverted and still be carrying
positive G’s…Look at the loop. Or even the outside loop from
upright entry just above the figure 9. This is how it should be depicted per
the Aresti rules. It’s a polygon loop that is positive G from an inverted
entry.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>In the 8 sided loop
the radii are all positive G’s and hence should be solid. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>We interpret upright
vs inverted but this is really not the case. It has to do with the G load on
the airframe and in the case of vertical lines the G load used in the corner.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>It’s all kinda
subjective a little. After all the 45 degree inverted line the first leg of the
8 sided is negative G but the corner to get there is positive. However on
the figure 9 I referenced the radius to get to the vertical downline is
negative G but the downline is drawn as positive G since the bottom radius to
pull out is positive.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Personal preference
would probably decide, either one works for the intent. It’s not like you
can come from the top down any other way than positive corners. It’s just
a symbol that is short hand for the figure. There is not a better way to
short hand the figures and Aresti is the universal standard. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I think based on my
copy of the official Aresti Catalog from 2007 I would say the polygon loop
should be solid line. This is AMA pattern and Aresti carries zero weight in the
judging of the maneuver. In AMA only the worded descriptor has any judging
weight. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>In F3A the Aresti is
by definition EQUAL to the word description of the figure. Especially since the
unknown catalog has zero worded descriptors and all Aresti figures. Many
folks get this confused. Aresti was added to the AMA rule book in order to
eliminate those hard to produce ribbon drawings and go to a standard that is
universally recognized around the world for aerobatics. It was one or the other
for a symbol or a picture. Aresti symbols have a reason to be there and are
graphically easier to reproduce.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'>Troy</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font size=2
color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:PersonName w:st="on">adriancwong@earthlink.net</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 02, 2009
7:36 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Aresti Figures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>That's
an eight sided loop<br>
<br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Adrian</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message----- <br>
From: krishlan fitzsimmons <br>
Sent: Feb 2, 2009 6:31 PM <br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;font-style:inherit;font-variant:
inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size-adjust: inherit;
font-stretch: inherit;-x-system-font: none'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>Where
ever it is inverted is should be dashed lines. Upright is solid.. <br>
<br>
Doesn't seem right to me. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><i><font size=3 color="#0000bf" face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0000BF;font-weight:
bold'>Chris </span></font></i></b></em><font size=1 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 2/2/09, Scott Smith <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<st1:PersonName w:st="on">js.smith@verizon.net</st1:PersonName>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>From:
Scott Smith <<st1:PersonName w:st="on">js.smith@verizon.net</st1:PersonName>><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti Figures<br>
To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:17 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1483487725>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Is Figure 8 of the 09 Master’s schedule drawn
correctly? Entering inverted from the top, you’re pulling pos
G’s through the maneuver therefore it should be a solid line…no?
</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><img width=365 height=176 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:1.3285596854@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com"></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>